WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from December 9, 2019

Listener comments!
	6:00pm ultradamno: Hello Mark! Techtippelgängers!
	🤖 6:00pm chresti: Hi Mark and Technoids
	6:01pm Carmichael: Heya Mark and Tekkies.
	🤖 6:01pm herb.nyc: hi all. ich bin ein techtippelganger (hey, where's my umlaut?)
	6:01pm queems: hi mark hurst & all
	🤖 6:02pm Webhamster Henry: Hi Mark & Friends. Title blurb by Jerry Mander, "Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television" who clearly sees an update there!
	6:02pm melinda: Hi everyone
	6:02pm listener James from Westwood: Bleep boopadoop! Bloop boopadoop! Techtonic time!
	🤖 6:02pm Bas NL: Mark! Techtonicthinktwice-ies!
	6:02pm Dave Miss: Hello from wet Brooklyn
	6:03pm The Butterman: Hi.
	6:03pm mariano: Hey everyone!
	6:03pm Aaron Working In Newark: Hiya!
	6:04pm aaronfrommi: hello from wet philly
	6:04pm Aaron Working In Newark: Where do I type in my social security number?
	🤖 6:04pm Ken From Hyde Park: Greetings to the techto-binary and the techto-fluid.
	6:04pm kevlicki: Hello mark and all!
	🤖 6:04pm tim from champaign (now washington): Hi Mark and everyone! I've been waiting all week to tell this story... last week a group of 3rd graders toured where I work. Someone from the Communications department was telling the kids that they were really excited about upcoming facebook improvements. A kid interrupted and said "facebook is for old people" hahaha!
	🤖 6:05pm Webhamster Henry: Dorsey clearly is cashing in on his Nigerian inheritance.
	6:05pm adampsyche: my child does note that facebook is for the olds. he's 21.
	6:05pm ultradamno: Hey! "Pedo-guy" is their hyphenate!
	6:05pm queems: LOL OH ELON
	6:06pm mariano: @Aaron Working In Newark: Let me get you my email address, you can send your SSN there. I'll also need bank account numbers and passwords.
	🤖 6:06pm tim from champaign (now washington): What a shithead.
	6:07pm ultradamno: I'm thinking about buying one of his pickup trucks just so I can have one that I feel good about attacking with a sledgehammer.
	6:08pm P-90: “I’m taking my submarine and going home...”
	6:08pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: It's like the SubGenius Pleasure Saucers...except seriously...
	6:08pm Megaroni: Thank you Techtonic for having the courage to do this important work! A true service for us all
	🤖 6:09pm Webhamster Henry: You Billion visualization reminds me ... of me of course #ohshutupalready medium.com...
	6:09pm johnzo: Hey hey... the billionaires & their toadies are unfit to rule. Losing respect for musk all the time. Tesla’s stock prices went up after the coupe in Bolivia so he’s officially in bed with actual Nazi’s... if he wasn’t already. The Chinese were negotiating with Morales to give Bolivia a much better deal on the Lithium they have which Tesla needs. Boycott the nazi fuckers.
	🤖 6:09pm herb.nyc: dorsey must really love that Toto song!
	🤖 6:10pm Ken From Hyde Park: Musk has evidently been out driving his prototype pickup on the open road. He was seen at some California sushi restaurant the other night and ran over a traffic cone on the way out (source: TMZ).
	6:10pm listener James from Westwood: Jack could simply have followed @africabytotobot on his own damn service.
	6:10pm johnzo: Lol Ken
	6:11pm johnzo: What a moron
	6:11pm ultradamno: What else would it mean. Guys that chug Pedialyte?
	6:11pm johnzo: Lol ultra domino
	6:12pm Pedestrian Guy: I was out walking around and I thought I heard my name?
	6:12pm P-90: I wasn’t really infuriated by Musk’s behavior in this until he gave that lame-o disingenuous story about how “thats just a generalized put-down back in my old neighborhood “
	6:13pm greatb: Liz Warren has received, and continues to receive a lot of campaign money from Alphabet employees, wonder if she's all bravado specifically when it comes to Alphabet/Google
	6:13pm johnzo: Still and all... he’s now in bed with nazi coupe mongers. None of his shenanigans matter in comparison.
	6:15pm Honeybear: @johnzo - can you elaborate please? (not that I would have reason do doubt that)
	6:16pm johnzo: Just said it earlier... “the billionaires & their toadies are unfit to rule. Losing respect for musk all the time. Tesla’s stock prices went up after the coupe in Bolivia so he’s officially in bed with actual Nazi’s... if he wasn’t already. The Chinese were negotiating with Morales to give Bolivia a much better deal on the Lithium they have which Tesla needs. Boycott the nazi fuckers.”
	6:17pm P-90: So “coupe” = coup?
	6:20pm johnzo: Lol yes I’m a bad speaker... bad speller’s of the world untie!!
	6:20pm johnzo: Speller... spieler
	6:21pm Mark Hurst: Hi all! Thanks for joining in.
	6:22pm Mark Hurst: @Webhamster Henry: coincidentally, just today I started reading Jerry Mander's second book ("In the Absence of the Sacred")
	6:22pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...are you trying to say things like the hydrogen bomb & environmental destruction aren't worth it??..
	6:22pm ultradamno: Is that the well the videotape brings?
	6:23pm Mark Hurst: @tim from champaign good story. Wonder how many of those kids use (similarly manipulative) TikTok or Snapchat instead
	🤖 6:26pm chresti: Haha Webham@6:05
	6:28pm Mark Hurst: @Megaroni - appreciate it. Thanks for listening!
	6:29pm Doug Hill: Quote from Ellul relevant to what we just talked about: The “proper motion” of technique, he said, is toward “completeness…To the degree that this completeness is not yet attained, technique is advancing, eliminating every lesser force. And when it has received full satisfaction and accomplished its vocation, it will remain alone on the field.”
	6:29pm Mark Hurst: Hi Doug! Thanks for joining! Good quote.
	6:30pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: en.m.wikipedia.org...
	6:31pm brainiac: Skynet decided our fate in a microsecond
	🤖 6:31pm Webhamster Henry: "Tech Fixes" are generally carbon intensive.
	6:34pm coelacanth∅: President Jimmy Carter suggested buckling down together to get out of our mess and then all the idiots got bamboozled by shithead reagan saying what they wanted to hear... "don't worry, be happy".
	6:36pm northguineahills: what coel said....
	🤖 6:36pm Webhamster Henry: Technically, Don't Worry, Be Happy was a G.H.W. Bush theme song, but whatevs.
	6:36pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Love this - as it approaches the issues - finally - from the Philosophical - & Anthropological angle. We are the Monkey that Uses Things. Opposable thumbs - big wrinkly conceptual brain - & complex society & communications. In evolution - any adaptation can become a maladaptation - if circumstances change. Devolution. Hopefully we have evolved capacities other than Using Things - like the Wisdom to use them sustainably & positively ... It is apparently no less than an Evolutionary crossroads.
	6:38pm Kurt: What no one seems to ever bring up is we're currently in a geological ice age. For much of earths history there was no polar ice at all
	🤖 6:39pm Webhamster Henry: Look up Permaculture. Then move up here to the Mid Hudson Valley. We're hoping to plan a Just Transition to deal with the disruptions - both direct and indirect - from the climate crisis. en.wikipedia.org...
	6:39pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: @Kurt: Our species is quite young also.
	6:39pm tak: kropotkin's mutual aid
	6:41pm melinda: @Henry are you in Kingston? I read an article about efforts at resiliency there.
	6:42pm Mark Hurst: Jenny Odell's book "How to Do Nothing" (see June 10 episode) also covers sustainability and permaculture.
	6:43pm spodiodi: the last point he made is key
	6:43pm coelacanth∅: no Henry, reagan said it first. (while vice president bush was under him)
	🤖 6:44pm Webhamster Henry: @Melinda indeed. One of the little Brooklyns of the north.
	6:44pm ultradamno: Not fair. Occasionally they take a break from building code to make Star Wars references.
	6:46pm brainiac: @tak: your comment would be upvoted to the sky, were upvotes a thing here :)
	6:46pm JakeGould: @ultradamno: Who. Also, have you heard the good news about Baby Yoda?
	6:47pm mariano: Doug Hill sounds like Jeff Bridges. Just an observation.
	6:47pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Consider Terence McKenna's proposition that what society considers normal is pathological. We left the forests & woods for cities & material control.
	6:48pm JakeGould: FWIW, I am not religious, kinda spiritual, but at the end of the day the modern world is based on religion. Specifically Christianity. So the more you know about the bare bones basics about Western religions, the more some things make sense.
	6:48pm Doug Hill: Thank you Mark!
	6:48pm ultradamno: Did Jerri Blank strangle the little amphibian?
	6:48pm coelacanth∅: (Henry...although bush might've linked the phrase to the Bobby McFerrin song first)
	6:49pm JakeGould: @ultradamno: No, the Rhea Perlman wannabe just sucked. 5th episode stinks actually.
	6:49pm listener james from westwood: Bonus points for the wonderful word "glom."
	6:50pm melinda: Mark thanks for reminding me of that book, I think about that interview often but forgot her name.
	6:50pm Cmurtha: caught the end of this, pretty interesting show tonight
	🤖 6:50pm Webhamster Henry: @Coelo it was literally GHWBush's theme song until McFerrin issued a C&D!
	6:51pm melinda: Regenerative agriculture is kind of exciting.
	6:52pm ultradamno: Now that the gauntlet's been thrown, I need to hear Warren's stand on malarkey.
	6:53pm melinda: Mayor Pete has Facebook people on his team now, I heard.
	🤖 6:53pm Webhamster Henry: Just enforcing good old Anti-Trust would be nice.
	6:54pm coelacanth∅: you're probably correct Henry. i kind of remember the theme song thing. (reagan did say the phrase though, in regard to energy usage)
	6:54pm ignatatus666: Write in Vote Hurst 2020
	6:54pm JakeGould: Just tax them and maybe offer tax incentives for creating tools that are the equivalent of open source and benefits the country as a whole.
	6:56pm mariano: Thanks Marik and Doug, see y'all later.
	6:56pm brainiac: Great show, thanks Doug & Mark
	🤖 6:56pm Webhamster Henry: Well, I'm worried and unhappy.
	6:56pm spodiodi: Thanks Mark! Thanks Doug!
	6:56pm Dave Miss: Thanks for the great work Mark.
	🤖 6:56pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark, Doug!
	6:57pm northguineahills: zanks, mark & doug!
	6:57pm spodiodi: i'm with you Webhamster Henry
	🤖 6:58pm chresti: Thanks Mark
	6:59pm queems: thanx mark
	🤖 6:59pm chresti: I'm confused and tired
	7:00pm coelacanth∅: Thanks Mark

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from December 9, 2019

View Mark Hurst's profile

Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Nov 25th, 6pm - 7pm: Technology we're thankful for (More info...)
Amidst all the headlines about predatory tech companies and misbehaving billionaires, we're taking a moment to remember that some tech is actually good. Drawing on listener submissions, Mark will discuss the tools, gadgets, and systemsthat people are genuinely thankful for.
Mon. Dec 23rd, 6pm - 7pm: Don Fleming guest hosts Techtonic

December 9, 2019: Doug Hill, author, "Not So Fast: Thinking Twice About Technology"

Listen to this show: Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Tonight: Doug Hill, author, "Not So Fast: Thinking Twice About Technology"

• Not So Fast at Indiebound

• @DougHill25 on Twitter

In tech news:

• Elon Musk wins in defamation trial over his 'pedo guy' tweet

• Guardian: Twitter chief Jack Dorsey announces plans to move to Africa (Jason Kint responds: "Hold on. Every reporter I follow is ?? at this. This is the CEO of company mentioned 74x in Mueller Report investigating Russia’s interference in 2016 US election. He’s moving to another continent for much of 2020 election??? And we’re OK with this? WTF.")

• Google's founders just became even more unaccountable (WIRED Opinion, Natasha Bernal): "The two most powerful people in tech have just become even more unaccountable. In one fell swoop, they extricated themselves from the firing line of major competition investigations, internal scandals and tax rows – yet still get to keep their plush 14 per cent stake in Google’s parent company Alphabet, and control the majority of the stockholder voting power through supervoting power. Pichai will be the perfect human shield; someone to take all the flak and have next to no true power to determine the direction of the business." (Elizabeth Warren responds: "Congrats on the move, Larry Page! Quick reminder: We do still expect you to testify before Congress. And changing your title while staying on the board and retaining effective control of it will not exempt you from accountability.")

• Amazon Ring pursuing partnership with Axon (Taser manufacturer that Matt Stroud talked about in July 15 Techtonic)

• Apple Seems to Be Tracking iPhone 11 When Location Services Are Disabled, Report Finds

- - -

Check out techtonic.fm for recent Techtonic interviews and Little Slice of Tech Pie segments.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist	Track	Approx. start time
In his book "Not So Fast: Thinking Twice About Technology," Doug Hill surveys what tech critics have been trying to tell us for a couple hundred years. (Maybe this time we'll listen to them!)
Tomaš Dvořák	Game Boy Tune "Game Boy Tune" by "Tomaš Dvořák"
	Mark's intro "Mark's intro"
	Interview with Doug Hill "Interview with Doug Hill"	0:16:16 (Pop-up)
	Your comments "Your comments"	0:45:20 (Pop-up)
Marlon Craft	The Internet Lied "The Internet Lied" by "Marlon Craft"	0:54:41 (Pop-up)

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Listener comments!
	6:00pm ultradamno: Hello Mark! Techtippelgängers!
	🤖 6:00pm chresti: Hi Mark and Technoids
	6:01pm Carmichael: Heya Mark and Tekkies.
	🤖 6:01pm herb.nyc: hi all. ich bin ein techtippelganger (hey, where's my umlaut?)
	6:01pm queems: hi mark hurst & all
	🤖 6:02pm Webhamster Henry: Hi Mark & Friends. Title blurb by Jerry Mander, "Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television" who clearly sees an update there!
	6:02pm melinda: Hi everyone
	6:02pm listener James from Westwood: Bleep boopadoop! Bloop boopadoop! Techtonic time!
	🤖 6:02pm Bas NL: Mark! Techtonicthinktwice-ies!
	6:02pm Dave Miss: Hello from wet Brooklyn
	6:03pm The Butterman: Hi.
	6:03pm mariano: Hey everyone!
	6:03pm Aaron Working In Newark: Hiya!
	6:04pm aaronfrommi: hello from wet philly
	6:04pm Aaron Working In Newark: Where do I type in my social security number?
	🤖 6:04pm Ken From Hyde Park: Greetings to the techto-binary and the techto-fluid.
	6:04pm kevlicki: Hello mark and all!
	🤖 6:04pm tim from champaign (now washington): Hi Mark and everyone! I've been waiting all week to tell this story... last week a group of 3rd graders toured where I work. Someone from the Communications department was telling the kids that they were really excited about upcoming facebook improvements. A kid interrupted and said "facebook is for old people" hahaha!
	🤖 6:05pm Webhamster Henry: Dorsey clearly is cashing in on his Nigerian inheritance.
	6:05pm adampsyche: my child does note that facebook is for the olds. he's 21.
	6:05pm ultradamno: Hey! "Pedo-guy" is their hyphenate!
	6:05pm queems: LOL OH ELON
	6:06pm mariano: @Aaron Working In Newark: Let me get you my email address, you can send your SSN there. I'll also need bank account numbers and passwords.
	🤖 6:06pm tim from champaign (now washington): What a shithead.
	6:07pm ultradamno: I'm thinking about buying one of his pickup trucks just so I can have one that I feel good about attacking with a sledgehammer.
	6:08pm P-90: “I’m taking my submarine and going home...”
	6:08pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: It's like the SubGenius Pleasure Saucers...except seriously...
	6:08pm Megaroni: Thank you Techtonic for having the courage to do this important work! A true service for us all
	🤖 6:09pm Webhamster Henry: You Billion visualization reminds me ... of me of course #ohshutupalready medium.com...
	6:09pm johnzo: Hey hey... the billionaires & their toadies are unfit to rule. Losing respect for musk all the time. Tesla’s stock prices went up after the coupe in Bolivia so he’s officially in bed with actual Nazi’s... if he wasn’t already. The Chinese were negotiating with Morales to give Bolivia a much better deal on the Lithium they have which Tesla needs. Boycott the nazi fuckers.
	🤖 6:09pm herb.nyc: dorsey must really love that Toto song!
	🤖 6:10pm Ken From Hyde Park: Musk has evidently been out driving his prototype pickup on the open road. He was seen at some California sushi restaurant the other night and ran over a traffic cone on the way out (source: TMZ).
	6:10pm listener James from Westwood: Jack could simply have followed @africabytotobot on his own damn service.
	6:10pm johnzo: Lol Ken
	6:11pm johnzo: What a moron
	6:11pm ultradamno: What else would it mean. Guys that chug Pedialyte?
	6:11pm johnzo: Lol ultra domino
	6:12pm Pedestrian Guy: I was out walking around and I thought I heard my name?
	6:12pm P-90: I wasn’t really infuriated by Musk’s behavior in this until he gave that lame-o disingenuous story about how “thats just a generalized put-down back in my old neighborhood “
	6:13pm greatb: Liz Warren has received, and continues to receive a lot of campaign money from Alphabet employees, wonder if she's all bravado specifically when it comes to Alphabet/Google
	6:13pm johnzo: Still and all... he’s now in bed with nazi coupe mongers. None of his shenanigans matter in comparison.
	6:15pm Honeybear: @johnzo - can you elaborate please? (not that I would have reason do doubt that)
	6:16pm johnzo: Just said it earlier... “the billionaires & their toadies are unfit to rule. Losing respect for musk all the time. Tesla’s stock prices went up after the coupe in Bolivia so he’s officially in bed with actual Nazi’s... if he wasn’t already. The Chinese were negotiating with Morales to give Bolivia a much better deal on the Lithium they have which Tesla needs. Boycott the nazi fuckers.”
	6:17pm P-90: So “coupe” = coup?
	6:20pm johnzo: Lol yes I’m a bad speaker... bad speller’s of the world untie!!
	6:20pm johnzo: Speller... spieler
	6:21pm Mark Hurst: Hi all! Thanks for joining in.
	6:22pm Mark Hurst: @Webhamster Henry: coincidentally, just today I started reading Jerry Mander's second book ("In the Absence of the Sacred")
	6:22pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: ...are you trying to say things like the hydrogen bomb & environmental destruction aren't worth it??..
	6:22pm ultradamno: Is that the well the videotape brings?
	6:23pm Mark Hurst: @tim from champaign good story. Wonder how many of those kids use (similarly manipulative) TikTok or Snapchat instead
	🤖 6:26pm chresti: Haha Webham@6:05
	6:28pm Mark Hurst: @Megaroni - appreciate it. Thanks for listening!
	6:29pm Doug Hill: Quote from Ellul relevant to what we just talked about: The “proper motion” of technique, he said, is toward “completeness…To the degree that this completeness is not yet attained, technique is advancing, eliminating every lesser force. And when it has received full satisfaction and accomplished its vocation, it will remain alone on the field.”
	6:29pm Mark Hurst: Hi Doug! Thanks for joining! Good quote.
	6:30pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: en.m.wikipedia.org...
	6:31pm brainiac: Skynet decided our fate in a microsecond
	🤖 6:31pm Webhamster Henry: "Tech Fixes" are generally carbon intensive.
	6:34pm coelacanth∅: President Jimmy Carter suggested buckling down together to get out of our mess and then all the idiots got bamboozled by shithead reagan saying what they wanted to hear... "don't worry, be happy".
	6:36pm northguineahills: what coel said....
	🤖 6:36pm Webhamster Henry: Technically, Don't Worry, Be Happy was a G.H.W. Bush theme song, but whatevs.
	6:36pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Love this - as it approaches the issues - finally - from the Philosophical - & Anthropological angle. We are the Monkey that Uses Things. Opposable thumbs - big wrinkly conceptual brain - & complex society & communications. In evolution - any adaptation can become a maladaptation - if circumstances change. Devolution. Hopefully we have evolved capacities other than Using Things - like the Wisdom to use them sustainably & positively ... It is apparently no less than an Evolutionary crossroads.
	6:38pm Kurt: What no one seems to ever bring up is we're currently in a geological ice age. For much of earths history there was no polar ice at all
	🤖 6:39pm Webhamster Henry: Look up Permaculture. Then move up here to the Mid Hudson Valley. We're hoping to plan a Just Transition to deal with the disruptions - both direct and indirect - from the climate crisis. en.wikipedia.org...
	6:39pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: @Kurt: Our species is quite young also.
	6:39pm tak: kropotkin's mutual aid
	6:41pm melinda: @Henry are you in Kingston? I read an article about efforts at resiliency there.
	6:42pm Mark Hurst: Jenny Odell's book "How to Do Nothing" (see June 10 episode) also covers sustainability and permaculture.
	6:43pm spodiodi: the last point he made is key
	6:43pm coelacanth∅: no Henry, reagan said it first. (while vice president bush was under him)
	🤖 6:44pm Webhamster Henry: @Melinda indeed. One of the little Brooklyns of the north.
	6:44pm ultradamno: Not fair. Occasionally they take a break from building code to make Star Wars references.
	6:46pm brainiac: @tak: your comment would be upvoted to the sky, were upvotes a thing here :)
	6:46pm JakeGould: @ultradamno: Who. Also, have you heard the good news about Baby Yoda?
	6:47pm mariano: Doug Hill sounds like Jeff Bridges. Just an observation.
	6:47pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Consider Terence McKenna's proposition that what society considers normal is pathological. We left the forests & woods for cities & material control.
	6:48pm JakeGould: FWIW, I am not religious, kinda spiritual, but at the end of the day the modern world is based on religion. Specifically Christianity. So the more you know about the bare bones basics about Western religions, the more some things make sense.
	6:48pm Doug Hill: Thank you Mark!
	6:48pm ultradamno: Did Jerri Blank strangle the little amphibian?
	6:48pm coelacanth∅: (Henry...although bush might've linked the phrase to the Bobby McFerrin song first)
	6:49pm JakeGould: @ultradamno: No, the Rhea Perlman wannabe just sucked. 5th episode stinks actually.
	6:49pm listener james from westwood: Bonus points for the wonderful word "glom."
	6:50pm melinda: Mark thanks for reminding me of that book, I think about that interview often but forgot her name.
	6:50pm Cmurtha: caught the end of this, pretty interesting show tonight
	🤖 6:50pm Webhamster Henry: @Coelo it was literally GHWBush's theme song until McFerrin issued a C&D!
	6:51pm melinda: Regenerative agriculture is kind of exciting.
	6:52pm ultradamno: Now that the gauntlet's been thrown, I need to hear Warren's stand on malarkey.
	6:53pm melinda: Mayor Pete has Facebook people on his team now, I heard.
	🤖 6:53pm Webhamster Henry: Just enforcing good old Anti-Trust would be nice.
	6:54pm coelacanth∅: you're probably correct Henry. i kind of remember the theme song thing. (reagan did say the phrase though, in regard to energy usage)
	6:54pm ignatatus666: Write in Vote Hurst 2020
	6:54pm JakeGould: Just tax them and maybe offer tax incentives for creating tools that are the equivalent of open source and benefits the country as a whole.
	6:56pm mariano: Thanks Marik and Doug, see y'all later.
	6:56pm brainiac: Great show, thanks Doug & Mark
	🤖 6:56pm Webhamster Henry: Well, I'm worried and unhappy.
	6:56pm spodiodi: Thanks Mark! Thanks Doug!
	6:56pm Dave Miss: Thanks for the great work Mark.
	🤖 6:56pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark, Doug!
	6:57pm northguineahills: zanks, mark & doug!
	6:57pm spodiodi: i'm with you Webhamster Henry
	🤖 6:58pm chresti: Thanks Mark
	6:59pm queems: thanx mark
	🤖 6:59pm chresti: I'm confused and tired
	7:00pm coelacanth∅: Thanks Mark

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from December 9, 2019

Upcoming events:

Listener comments!

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