WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from October 28, 2019

Listener comments!
	6:00pm ultradamno: Hello Mark! Techsmaster Generals!
	6:01pm queems: howdy
	🤖 6:01pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! Techpledgeroids!
	6:02pm Jack: I once had a security person ask me to spell "underscore" in my email address.
	6:03pm melinda: Hi all
	🤖 6:03pm Ken From Hyde Park: Good evening, Mark and Frankentechtors!
	6:03pm John from Florham park: Hello technoids
	6:04pm queems: the idea of getting a new email address at this point in my life gives me HIVES
	6:04pm melinda: Looking forward to this, I’m going to switch from gmail to something else but not ready to make the leap.
	6:06pm Phillippe Bastille: Hi all
	🤖 6:06pm Bas NL: Big court case tomorrow in The Netherlands about the SyRI system. It is a system collating all information available about citizens and profiling whether they could be conducting fraud with social security. Information used is not divulged, but probably not legal to start with.
	6:07pm Fredericks: I have investigated the idea of changing email providers. My concern is that I will lose decades of correspondence and records contained in the old emails..
	6:08pm dirkreynold: just remember with duckduckgo it only indexes like the top 400 sites on the web. it is not a whole web index like google
	🤖 6:08pm Handy Haversack: I think I might be ready to lose that history. I wish I had never got on the Gmail drip way back in the day. But it's gone way too far.
	6:08pm kevlicki: Hey mark and All the other paranoid tech users
	6:09pm queems: yes, my phone is set to duckduckgo, and sometimes i have trouble searching for stuff
	🤖 6:09pm chresti: Hi Mark and Techtonocrats!
	6:09pm ultradamno: I was thinking about getting into cryptocurrency, but was just waiting most clearly evil option to present itself.
	6:09pm Fredericks: Dirk, I know you are correct. Periodically I will be forced into using Google to access more esoteric information.
	6:10pm Phillippe Bastille: I've just signed up for protonmail. Still keeping gmail but not using it to send mail anymore, so I still have that record. Getting rid of my android devices for apple -- still not great but not as bad as Google, as Mark would say
	6:11pm Fredericks: Hmmm
	🤖 6:11pm Handy Haversack: @Phillippe, do you have Gmail forward to your protonmail?
	6:11pm queems: wait off topic but how did i not know that apple phones no longer use jpg as a default file type for images???? i flipped my shit when i transfered photos to my computer and none of them could be opened
	6:11pm John from Florham park: Was Katie porter the one who resigned due to a sex scandal
	6:12pm Phillippe Bastille: @Handy no. I'm looking at it occasionally on the computer, but I won't put the app on my phone
	6:12pm ultradamno: And by "care about privacy" I mean I have an interest in violating it as part of our business mode.
	6:13pm Fredericks: No, John. Fortunately.
	6:13pm John from Florham park: @Queems me too with Gmail too old to change to another
	6:14pm John from Florham park: @Fredricks thanks for the clarification
	6:14pm Fredericks: Katie Hill resigned to fight Revenge Pron.
	6:14pm Motobro: Good evening. If you run a script blocker on your browser; e.g."no script", you'll be surprised at just how many programs you'll need to grant, at least temporary permission for the webpage to operate, FMU included...
	6:14pm dirkreynold: no that was katie hill
	🤖 6:15pm Bas NL: Yeah, excellent questioning.
	🤖 6:15pm Handy Haversack: Thanks, @Phillippe. I don't have a smartphone. (Full disclosure: I don't have a cell phone at all!) So might be a little easier to get off of Gmail if I can bring myself to jump.
	🤖 6:16pm tim from champaign (now washington): Man, Zuckerberg is one dumb SOB. All he has to do is act contrite, say "you're absolutely right" and wring his hands. Who is Zuckerberg paying to advise him on how to handle hearings?
	6:17pm queems: "it's my understanding"
	6:18pm Phillippe Bastille: @handy I wish I never got caught up in the phablet mentality. I've gone back to the smallest phone I could get so I don't sit there staring at it all my free time.
	6:18pm Ike: THAT IS AMAZING
	🤖 6:19pm tim from champaign (now washington): What Ike said!
	6:20pm John from Florham park: @Fredricks ahh right person
	6:20pm queems: lol gtfo zuckerberg
	6:21pm sufferwords: Katie Porter = real deal - California Über Alles
	6:21pm ultradamno: $20 an hour put in enough to live in, say, the bay area is a lot of distressing video viewing.
	6:21pm SeanG: that's insane dude
	🤖 6:22pm chresti: I think Zuck needs a stairwell and 9.5 minutes to cry
	6:22pm northguineahills: Mark, I was listening to a podcast where a bunch of African academics were lamenting the lack of indigenous languages publishing academic (or translations into indigenous languages), let alone digital databases. So, what started out as a Hausa, Swahili, and Zulu language FB pages became the frontrunner in setting up publishing in indigenous languages and now is looking more funding for a digital DB free from Google. They are now helping like-minded academics around the world to do such....
	6:24pm ignatatus666: What about Yahoo?
	6:24pm SeanG: fuck zuck
	6:25pm John from Florham park: @Chresti I wish zuck would fall down those stairs and hope all is well in your area in California
	6:25pm The Butterman: Jebus! Ridiculous!
	6:25pm mcginniwa: Mark Zuckerberg read 1984 and thought it was an instruction manual.
	6:26pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone, for showing up & chatting tonight!
	🤖 6:27pm chresti: That stick of butter reminds me of the butter we were given when we were on welfare in the 70s
	6:27pm brong: It's always fun listening to your own voice... hi everyone. It's 9:30am here in Melbourne, I've been home about a week and am sitting on a train heading to work after taking early morning calls from home.
	6:29pm mcginniwa: Howdy @brong from a long time customer based in NZ. When I decided I no longer wanted to run my own own mail server way back, I switched to fast mail.
	6:30pm brong: @mcginniwa glad to hear. Hi from over the ditch
	6:30pm Sam: How about email that DOESNT spy on you and is still free because of advertising?
	6:30pm kevlicki: Queems I’ve been dealing with that HEIF nonsense all week! I just learned that there’s settings in PhotoSync, which I use to transfer my images to my computer, that will convert them in transfer
	6:32pm kevlicki: Mark, there was a great graphic going around with this fact a couple weeks ago. "If you worked every single day, making $5000/day, from the time Columbus sailed to America, to the time you are reading this tweet, you would still not be a billionaire, and you would still have less money than Jeff Bezos makes in a week."
	6:32pm queems: @kevlicki thanks for the tip! this seems like such a counterintuitive move. like taking out the headphone jack
	6:33pm brong: @Sam you're welcome to build that service if you think it's viable! Good luck.
	6:33pm Mark Hurst: Bron! Thanks for joining in!
	6:33pm Phillippe Bastille: Hey Brong
	🤖 6:34pm chresti: John Florham, thanks, so far, we've been a safe distance from the flames, being in the San Gabriel Valley. Although it's smoky in some parts of town, depending on which way the wind blows.
	🤖 6:35pm Ken From Hyde Park: Hello, Bron. Greetings from Laurasia!
	6:35pm Mark Hurst: @chresti stay safe! I'll try to say something about the fires (hope everyone stays safe) by the end of the show.
	6:35pm Sam: Ha, I would never pay one penny for email. An email company is just a giant data storage drive. Why would you even need employees beyond a couple guys to keep the machines running?
	6:35pm John from Florham park: @Chersti stay safe
	6:36pm Mark Hurst: @Sam sorry, but either you're trolling or you have no idea the complexity of running a solid digital product like Fastmail/Protonmail.
	6:36pm mcginniwa: I realized Slack's business model was renting the knowledge that you generated at your organization back to you. Essentially holding it ransom after you hit the "you must pay to find this" threshold.
	6:38pm kevlicki: Who’s server space does slack use? Don’t all these companies use Amazon and Googles storage services?
	6:38pm Travisano66: "The only reason Gmail is around is because it makes money for Google." And that's why I use it. I want my content to exist for the rest of my life.
	🤖 6:38pm chresti: I don't use g-mail
	6:38pm Dave Miss: What ever happened to Eudora?
	6:39pm Mark Hurst: I'm not sure about Slack. But lots and lots of companies use Amazon Web Services. Netflix, for example. If Amazon's servers go down, Netflix goes down. I think Apple hosts its iCloud on Google servers but am not 100% sure.
	6:40pm Mark Hurst: Speaking of hosting, check out oreilly.com - "Our Apologies. Due to the fires and power outages in California, oreilly.com is unavailable."
	6:40pm brong: hey @Phillippe, hey @Ken
	6:40pm Mark Hurst: Eudora was great. The Apple Mail client is pretty good these days, tho.
	6:41pm Travisano66: Mark: I very much appreciate all of your cautions, and I completely understand them; but I am willing to accept all the negatives that come with Gmail.
	6:42pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Give me all the Profit - & all the Control ...w/ no Transparency ...& - no Accountability.
	6:42pm Mark Hurst: @Travisano that's totally fair! As long as you're making a decision based on an awareness of the issues.
	6:42pm Travisano66: I am very sorry that the Sin Eater jobs need to be done to keep YouTube running, but I assume no one is being forced to do them. Aren't slaughterhouse jobs also horrible and traumatizing for many people. Again, I assume they have a choice.
	🤖 6:43pm Bas NL: I've just checked Fastmail pricing.. seems very reasonable.
	6:43pm Mark Hurst: @Travisano read up on Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" and how that book yielded better labor protections
	6:43pm ignatatus666: @Mark Sam is Clay Pigeons sarcastic computer. Someone needs to report him. He obviously got out of the Wake and Bake storeroom.
	6:44pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Who does horrible jobs 'with choice' ? What does that mean ?
	6:44pm Travisano66: If you eat steak or bacon or chicken, would you be willing to work in a slaughterhouse for just one day?
	🤖 6:44pm Ken From Hyde Park: When you're waiting for the Fastmail server to respond, does the icon spin clockwise or counter-clockwise?
	6:45pm kevlicki: I remember a service called ziplip.com an encrypted email service. About 15 years ago they supposedly were put out of business by government legislation, making their service “illegally or something.
	6:45pm P-90: Excellent interview.
	6:45pm queems: @travisano false equivalency
	6:45pm Travisano66: Admittedly I rarely read, but I listen to your show whenever I can. Maybe you can give us the Cliff Notes version of Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle."
	🤖 6:46pm herb.nyc: Niiiice fastmail interview! I use gmail. I need to go fastmail I use Facebook. I need to stop (ouch!). But I use DuckDuckGo, so there's hope for me.
	🤖 6:47pm chresti: Haha Ken from HP
	🤖 6:48pm Folsom: Wait until Travisano66 uses up his 15GB of storage, then he will have to pay like people are starting to hit the limit recently.
	6:49pm Travisano66: I expect to live another 50 years, and I'm taking a guess that Gmail will be around at least that long.
	6:49pm kevlicki: Also there’s an email service called riseup.net ,that was created by activists and organizers, as a “secure” email service. The creators donate much of their time to maintain it, so it’s not the most agile service, but they’re not spying on you
	6:49pm Travisano66: Folsom: I did use it up. I am paying.
	🤖 6:49pm Bas NL: Just remember how fast Myspace evaporated..
	6:50pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: It ain't on your Server - you don't own it - & anything can happen to it.
	6:51pm queems: that is a good idea for an inbetween step
	6:51pm brong: Regarding the "changing address" problem - this is why I always recommend getting your own domain (which also costs money, but you can take it anywhere without changing your address!)
	6:52pm melinda: I started using gmail more only because my local email service doesn't work well on Apple devices so local address mail gets forwarded to gmail on my phone.
	6:52pm Vanessa bikes: I switched to protonmail, it's fine. I don't forward because I am overwhelmed with the billion subscriptions I have to my gmail. It is taking months to switch all of the important accounts to my new protonmail account, but I feel good about it!
	🤖 6:52pm Folsom: Travisano66 if i was paying then I would rather pay someone other than Google, also RRNov63 is correct, if you don't have a local copy then you can't guarantee it is available even if Google doesn't stop the service.
	6:53pm melinda: @brong great idea
	🤖 6:54pm Ken From Hyde Park: Maybe Bernie can get us universal email when we get Medicare For All.
	6:54pm Nellies: Your show is wonderful and informative, thanks! Thinking of switching to fastmail and Then deleting my DNA on online genetic testing I’ve done!
	6:55pm BigCat: I contribute via Posts and social media flak as for ca$h I'm out of work since Feb 2018
	🤖 6:55pm Bas NL: WFMU could start the personal swag-for-life email account?
	6:56pm Travisano66: But it's only like $9 a year!
	6:56pm northguineahills: Also relevant: www.cambridge.org...
	6:56pm queems: yeah i'm straight skint right now
	6:56pm Travisano66: I don't think Google will every stop Gmail. It's not frickin' Google Hangout. We knew that would fail the moment we saw it.
	6:57pm BigCat: I love the f
	6:57pm Phillippe Bastille: dripping springs used to make good vodka. a bit off topic.
	6:58pm northguineahills: "Biometric State The Global Politics of Identification and Surveillance in South Africa, 1850 to the Present" : afripod.aodl.org...
	6:58pm Phillippe Bastille: @vanessa I'm joining you
	6:58pm Sam: Mark, you have a wfmu email, right? Why don’t you just use that? Maybe we can all get wfmu email accounts?
	6:58pm northguineahills: I have 7 cents in my bank account, many job interviews upcoming.....
	6:59pm Motobro: Went to the Doc's the other day, they wanted to scan my palm... I said NO.
	6:59pm Sam: I still don’t get why you need a ton of employees to run an email server. How many does fmu have?
	6:59pm P-90: Thanks, Mark
	🤖 7:00pm chresti: Thanks Mark!
	7:00pm brong: Thanks everyone, nice hanging. Pleasure speaking to you the other week Mark.
	7:00pm Motobro: Thank you Mark.
	🤖 7:01pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark!
	7:02pm Travisano66: Despite my choices, your show rocks, and you rock. Thanks for your great work.
	7:02pm brong: @Sam, over a third of our team works on end-user support. Apart from that, there's sysadmins (we run our own hardware), developers and user experience people working on new features - and of course all the normal company stuff: finances, compliance, as mentioned in the interview - GDPR took multiple people plus outsourced lawyers many months - and there's always something new coming up.
	🤖 7:03pm chresti: Thanks Bron!
	7:05pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone! Good chat tonight.

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from October 28, 2019

View Mark Hurst's profile

Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Dec 30th, 6pm - 7pm: Andrew Smith, author, "Devil in the Stack" (More info...)
Writer Andrew Smith decided to learn computer programming in his 50s. What happened next is captured in his book "Devil in the Stack: A Code Odyssey," and wide-ranging tour through computer history, neuroscience, and the friendliest programming language.

October 28, 2019: Bron Gondwana, CEO of Fastmail

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October fundraiser: Click here to pledge to Techtonic. We still have a few "anglerfish" Techtonic t-shirts left. Donate $75 (one-time) or $10/month, then click "1 DJ Premium" to reveal the Techtonic shirt checkbox on the next page. (It's under the "Monday" heading.)

(Source: McSweeney's)

FastMail:

• Fastmail homepage

• @fastmail (Twitter)

• NoMoreGoogle.com - alternatives to Google products - such as: use Fastmail instead of Gmail!

Recent tech news:

• WeWork cofounder Adam Neumann secures "a nearly $1.7 billion windfall" (WSJ, Oct 22)

• Business Insider's recap of Zuck's Oct 23, 2019 Congressional testimony

(source)

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Check out techtonic.fm for recent Techtonic interviews and Little Slice of Tech Pie segments.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist	Track	Approx. start time
Bron Gondwana, CEO of Fastmail, describes how he runs a tech company with transparency and honesty - while teaching gym classes on the side.
Tomaš Dvořák	Game Boy Tune "Game Boy Tune" by "Tomaš Dvořák"
	Mark's intro "Mark's intro"	0:07:55 (Pop-up)
	Interview with Bron Gondwana "Interview with Bron Gondwana"	0:21:40 (Pop-up)
	Your comments "Your comments"	0:41:45 (Pop-up)
The Pink Tiles	Internet "Internet" by "The Pink Tiles"	0:57:42 (Pop-up)

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Listener comments!
	6:00pm ultradamno: Hello Mark! Techsmaster Generals!
	6:01pm queems: howdy
	🤖 6:01pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! Techpledgeroids!
	6:02pm Jack: I once had a security person ask me to spell "underscore" in my email address.
	6:03pm melinda: Hi all
	🤖 6:03pm Ken From Hyde Park: Good evening, Mark and Frankentechtors!
	6:03pm John from Florham park: Hello technoids
	6:04pm queems: the idea of getting a new email address at this point in my life gives me HIVES
	6:04pm melinda: Looking forward to this, I’m going to switch from gmail to something else but not ready to make the leap.
	6:06pm Phillippe Bastille: Hi all
	🤖 6:06pm Bas NL: Big court case tomorrow in The Netherlands about the SyRI system. It is a system collating all information available about citizens and profiling whether they could be conducting fraud with social security. Information used is not divulged, but probably not legal to start with.
	6:07pm Fredericks: I have investigated the idea of changing email providers. My concern is that I will lose decades of correspondence and records contained in the old emails..
	6:08pm dirkreynold: just remember with duckduckgo it only indexes like the top 400 sites on the web. it is not a whole web index like google
	🤖 6:08pm Handy Haversack: I think I might be ready to lose that history. I wish I had never got on the Gmail drip way back in the day. But it's gone way too far.
	6:08pm kevlicki: Hey mark and All the other paranoid tech users
	6:09pm queems: yes, my phone is set to duckduckgo, and sometimes i have trouble searching for stuff
	🤖 6:09pm chresti: Hi Mark and Techtonocrats!
	6:09pm ultradamno: I was thinking about getting into cryptocurrency, but was just waiting most clearly evil option to present itself.
	6:09pm Fredericks: Dirk, I know you are correct. Periodically I will be forced into using Google to access more esoteric information.
	6:10pm Phillippe Bastille: I've just signed up for protonmail. Still keeping gmail but not using it to send mail anymore, so I still have that record. Getting rid of my android devices for apple -- still not great but not as bad as Google, as Mark would say
	6:11pm Fredericks: Hmmm
	🤖 6:11pm Handy Haversack: @Phillippe, do you have Gmail forward to your protonmail?
	6:11pm queems: wait off topic but how did i not know that apple phones no longer use jpg as a default file type for images???? i flipped my shit when i transfered photos to my computer and none of them could be opened
	6:11pm John from Florham park: Was Katie porter the one who resigned due to a sex scandal
	6:12pm Phillippe Bastille: @Handy no. I'm looking at it occasionally on the computer, but I won't put the app on my phone
	6:12pm ultradamno: And by "care about privacy" I mean I have an interest in violating it as part of our business mode.
	6:13pm Fredericks: No, John. Fortunately.
	6:13pm John from Florham park: @Queems me too with Gmail too old to change to another
	6:14pm John from Florham park: @Fredricks thanks for the clarification
	6:14pm Fredericks: Katie Hill resigned to fight Revenge Pron.
	6:14pm Motobro: Good evening. If you run a script blocker on your browser; e.g."no script", you'll be surprised at just how many programs you'll need to grant, at least temporary permission for the webpage to operate, FMU included...
	6:14pm dirkreynold: no that was katie hill
	🤖 6:15pm Bas NL: Yeah, excellent questioning.
	🤖 6:15pm Handy Haversack: Thanks, @Phillippe. I don't have a smartphone. (Full disclosure: I don't have a cell phone at all!) So might be a little easier to get off of Gmail if I can bring myself to jump.
	🤖 6:16pm tim from champaign (now washington): Man, Zuckerberg is one dumb SOB. All he has to do is act contrite, say "you're absolutely right" and wring his hands. Who is Zuckerberg paying to advise him on how to handle hearings?
	6:17pm queems: "it's my understanding"
	6:18pm Phillippe Bastille: @handy I wish I never got caught up in the phablet mentality. I've gone back to the smallest phone I could get so I don't sit there staring at it all my free time.
	6:18pm Ike: THAT IS AMAZING
	🤖 6:19pm tim from champaign (now washington): What Ike said!
	6:20pm John from Florham park: @Fredricks ahh right person
	6:20pm queems: lol gtfo zuckerberg
	6:21pm sufferwords: Katie Porter = real deal - California Über Alles
	6:21pm ultradamno: $20 an hour put in enough to live in, say, the bay area is a lot of distressing video viewing.
	6:21pm SeanG: that's insane dude
	🤖 6:22pm chresti: I think Zuck needs a stairwell and 9.5 minutes to cry
	6:22pm northguineahills: Mark, I was listening to a podcast where a bunch of African academics were lamenting the lack of indigenous languages publishing academic (or translations into indigenous languages), let alone digital databases. So, what started out as a Hausa, Swahili, and Zulu language FB pages became the frontrunner in setting up publishing in indigenous languages and now is looking more funding for a digital DB free from Google. They are now helping like-minded academics around the world to do such....
	6:24pm ignatatus666: What about Yahoo?
	6:24pm SeanG: fuck zuck
	6:25pm John from Florham park: @Chresti I wish zuck would fall down those stairs and hope all is well in your area in California
	6:25pm The Butterman: Jebus! Ridiculous!
	6:25pm mcginniwa: Mark Zuckerberg read 1984 and thought it was an instruction manual.
	6:26pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone, for showing up & chatting tonight!
	🤖 6:27pm chresti: That stick of butter reminds me of the butter we were given when we were on welfare in the 70s
	6:27pm brong: It's always fun listening to your own voice... hi everyone. It's 9:30am here in Melbourne, I've been home about a week and am sitting on a train heading to work after taking early morning calls from home.
	6:29pm mcginniwa: Howdy @brong from a long time customer based in NZ. When I decided I no longer wanted to run my own own mail server way back, I switched to fast mail.
	6:30pm brong: @mcginniwa glad to hear. Hi from over the ditch
	6:30pm Sam: How about email that DOESNT spy on you and is still free because of advertising?
	6:30pm kevlicki: Queems I’ve been dealing with that HEIF nonsense all week! I just learned that there’s settings in PhotoSync, which I use to transfer my images to my computer, that will convert them in transfer
	6:32pm kevlicki: Mark, there was a great graphic going around with this fact a couple weeks ago. "If you worked every single day, making $5000/day, from the time Columbus sailed to America, to the time you are reading this tweet, you would still not be a billionaire, and you would still have less money than Jeff Bezos makes in a week."
	6:32pm queems: @kevlicki thanks for the tip! this seems like such a counterintuitive move. like taking out the headphone jack
	6:33pm brong: @Sam you're welcome to build that service if you think it's viable! Good luck.
	6:33pm Mark Hurst: Bron! Thanks for joining in!
	6:33pm Phillippe Bastille: Hey Brong
	🤖 6:34pm chresti: John Florham, thanks, so far, we've been a safe distance from the flames, being in the San Gabriel Valley. Although it's smoky in some parts of town, depending on which way the wind blows.
	🤖 6:35pm Ken From Hyde Park: Hello, Bron. Greetings from Laurasia!
	6:35pm Mark Hurst: @chresti stay safe! I'll try to say something about the fires (hope everyone stays safe) by the end of the show.
	6:35pm Sam: Ha, I would never pay one penny for email. An email company is just a giant data storage drive. Why would you even need employees beyond a couple guys to keep the machines running?
	6:35pm John from Florham park: @Chersti stay safe
	6:36pm Mark Hurst: @Sam sorry, but either you're trolling or you have no idea the complexity of running a solid digital product like Fastmail/Protonmail.
	6:36pm mcginniwa: I realized Slack's business model was renting the knowledge that you generated at your organization back to you. Essentially holding it ransom after you hit the "you must pay to find this" threshold.
	6:38pm kevlicki: Who’s server space does slack use? Don’t all these companies use Amazon and Googles storage services?
	6:38pm Travisano66: "The only reason Gmail is around is because it makes money for Google." And that's why I use it. I want my content to exist for the rest of my life.
	🤖 6:38pm chresti: I don't use g-mail
	6:38pm Dave Miss: What ever happened to Eudora?
	6:39pm Mark Hurst: I'm not sure about Slack. But lots and lots of companies use Amazon Web Services. Netflix, for example. If Amazon's servers go down, Netflix goes down. I think Apple hosts its iCloud on Google servers but am not 100% sure.
	6:40pm Mark Hurst: Speaking of hosting, check out oreilly.com - "Our Apologies. Due to the fires and power outages in California, oreilly.com is unavailable."
	6:40pm brong: hey @Phillippe, hey @Ken
	6:40pm Mark Hurst: Eudora was great. The Apple Mail client is pretty good these days, tho.
	6:41pm Travisano66: Mark: I very much appreciate all of your cautions, and I completely understand them; but I am willing to accept all the negatives that come with Gmail.
	6:42pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Give me all the Profit - & all the Control ...w/ no Transparency ...& - no Accountability.
	6:42pm Mark Hurst: @Travisano that's totally fair! As long as you're making a decision based on an awareness of the issues.
	6:42pm Travisano66: I am very sorry that the Sin Eater jobs need to be done to keep YouTube running, but I assume no one is being forced to do them. Aren't slaughterhouse jobs also horrible and traumatizing for many people. Again, I assume they have a choice.
	🤖 6:43pm Bas NL: I've just checked Fastmail pricing.. seems very reasonable.
	6:43pm Mark Hurst: @Travisano read up on Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" and how that book yielded better labor protections
	6:43pm ignatatus666: @Mark Sam is Clay Pigeons sarcastic computer. Someone needs to report him. He obviously got out of the Wake and Bake storeroom.
	6:44pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: Who does horrible jobs 'with choice' ? What does that mean ?
	6:44pm Travisano66: If you eat steak or bacon or chicken, would you be willing to work in a slaughterhouse for just one day?
	🤖 6:44pm Ken From Hyde Park: When you're waiting for the Fastmail server to respond, does the icon spin clockwise or counter-clockwise?
	6:45pm kevlicki: I remember a service called ziplip.com an encrypted email service. About 15 years ago they supposedly were put out of business by government legislation, making their service “illegally or something.
	6:45pm P-90: Excellent interview.
	6:45pm queems: @travisano false equivalency
	6:45pm Travisano66: Admittedly I rarely read, but I listen to your show whenever I can. Maybe you can give us the Cliff Notes version of Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle."
	🤖 6:46pm herb.nyc: Niiiice fastmail interview! I use gmail. I need to go fastmail I use Facebook. I need to stop (ouch!). But I use DuckDuckGo, so there's hope for me.
	🤖 6:47pm chresti: Haha Ken from HP
	🤖 6:48pm Folsom: Wait until Travisano66 uses up his 15GB of storage, then he will have to pay like people are starting to hit the limit recently.
	6:49pm Travisano66: I expect to live another 50 years, and I'm taking a guess that Gmail will be around at least that long.
	6:49pm kevlicki: Also there’s an email service called riseup.net ,that was created by activists and organizers, as a “secure” email service. The creators donate much of their time to maintain it, so it’s not the most agile service, but they’re not spying on you
	6:49pm Travisano66: Folsom: I did use it up. I am paying.
	🤖 6:49pm Bas NL: Just remember how fast Myspace evaporated..
	6:50pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63: It ain't on your Server - you don't own it - & anything can happen to it.
	6:51pm queems: that is a good idea for an inbetween step
	6:51pm brong: Regarding the "changing address" problem - this is why I always recommend getting your own domain (which also costs money, but you can take it anywhere without changing your address!)
	6:52pm melinda: I started using gmail more only because my local email service doesn't work well on Apple devices so local address mail gets forwarded to gmail on my phone.
	6:52pm Vanessa bikes: I switched to protonmail, it's fine. I don't forward because I am overwhelmed with the billion subscriptions I have to my gmail. It is taking months to switch all of the important accounts to my new protonmail account, but I feel good about it!
	🤖 6:52pm Folsom: Travisano66 if i was paying then I would rather pay someone other than Google, also RRNov63 is correct, if you don't have a local copy then you can't guarantee it is available even if Google doesn't stop the service.
	6:53pm melinda: @brong great idea
	🤖 6:54pm Ken From Hyde Park: Maybe Bernie can get us universal email when we get Medicare For All.
	6:54pm Nellies: Your show is wonderful and informative, thanks! Thinking of switching to fastmail and Then deleting my DNA on online genetic testing I’ve done!
	6:55pm BigCat: I contribute via Posts and social media flak as for ca$h I'm out of work since Feb 2018
	🤖 6:55pm Bas NL: WFMU could start the personal swag-for-life email account?
	6:56pm Travisano66: But it's only like $9 a year!
	6:56pm northguineahills: Also relevant: www.cambridge.org...
	6:56pm queems: yeah i'm straight skint right now
	6:56pm Travisano66: I don't think Google will every stop Gmail. It's not frickin' Google Hangout. We knew that would fail the moment we saw it.
	6:57pm BigCat: I love the f
	6:57pm Phillippe Bastille: dripping springs used to make good vodka. a bit off topic.
	6:58pm northguineahills: "Biometric State The Global Politics of Identification and Surveillance in South Africa, 1850 to the Present" : afripod.aodl.org...
	6:58pm Phillippe Bastille: @vanessa I'm joining you
	6:58pm Sam: Mark, you have a wfmu email, right? Why don’t you just use that? Maybe we can all get wfmu email accounts?
	6:58pm northguineahills: I have 7 cents in my bank account, many job interviews upcoming.....
	6:59pm Motobro: Went to the Doc's the other day, they wanted to scan my palm... I said NO.
	6:59pm Sam: I still don’t get why you need a ton of employees to run an email server. How many does fmu have?
	6:59pm P-90: Thanks, Mark
	🤖 7:00pm chresti: Thanks Mark!
	7:00pm brong: Thanks everyone, nice hanging. Pleasure speaking to you the other week Mark.
	7:00pm Motobro: Thank you Mark.
	🤖 7:01pm Bas NL: Thanks Mark!
	7:02pm Travisano66: Despite my choices, your show rocks, and you rock. Thanks for your great work.
	7:02pm brong: @Sam, over a third of our team works on end-user support. Apart from that, there's sysadmins (we run our own hardware), developers and user experience people working on new features - and of course all the normal company stuff: finances, compliance, as mentioned in the interview - GDPR took multiple people plus outsourced lawyers many months - and there's always something new coming up.
	🤖 7:03pm chresti: Thanks Bron!
	7:05pm Mark Hurst: Thanks, everyone! Good chat tonight.

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from October 28, 2019

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