WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from July 17, 2023

Listener comments!
	🤖 5:59pm Will thee Sound Guy: Hi Staysh and all!!! Time to Tech!!!
	🤖 5:59pm Handy Haversack: Hello, Ken and all the Techyon Drives. I am producing junk already as well.
	🤖 6:00pm Webhamster Henry: It's KenGPT!
	🤖 6:01pm Bas NL: Hi SM Ken! Hi all!
	🤖 6:02pm PaulRobeson1923: Hi Hi Hi!
	🤖 6:02pm Will thee Sound Guy: I put the foil lining inside my WFMU Bucket hat... lol 😆
	🤖 6:03pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:02 That won't save you -- the crazy is coming form inside the hat!!
	6:03pm lazy pierogi: breakin’ the AI baby yeah
	🤖 6:03pm PaulRobeson1923: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:02 Already inside you
	6:03pm dale: hey now - it's kentronics!
	🤖 6:03pm Bas NL: <Bummer...
	6:03pm diciassette: get happy!
	6:03pm DanFA: Good Evening Station Manager Ken.
	6:03pm Matt: I'd love to stay to hear Ken host today, but am off to an appointment instead - catch you later.
	6:04pm Listener Robert: I hope Ken explains the graphic.
	6:04pm Kat in the chat: I'm annoyed and alienated, darn it
	🤖 6:04pm tim: Hello Staysh Hurst! Hello Will, Handy and everyone!
	6:04pm DanFA: Did Mark get lost in Meta again?
	6:05pm G: Artificial Unintelligence
	6:06pm SeaCreature: Happy? I don’t get to play my mark rant drinking game?
	🤖 6:06pm tim: ↳ Kat in the chat @6:04 Hi Kat! That’s funny. I happen to be alienated and annoyed!
	6:06pm dale: can a.i. write good donkey sex novellas? that's the true tesy.
	6:06pm Rolando: Looking forward to todays show. - written by a real human
	🤖 6:07pm tim: Serious question - Ken, can you explain content collapse?
	🤖 6:07pm Webhamster Henry: As long as it's trained on the internet, ML Chatbots will be demonstrating garbage in, garbage out. For years SEO has warped websites into chum-filled nothingburgers.
	6:07pm DanFA: Colisseum in Rome.
	6:08pm (Murakami Whywolf))): I don't think the Model Collapse will happen, because 0.) the best modellers will get better at discriminating between humn- and A.I.-generated content, and 1.) Humans on the web will imitate the A.I. content—this is related to mine old idea, generated after hearing two people talking on the bus who sounded like any number of televised advertisements, that the Turing Test will definitively be passed when human beings' conversations become all the more rote-like and uninteresting.
	🤖 6:08pm DjLorraine: Evening all. Have them fight in a slum area for real excitement
	6:09pm Brendan: Can we provide them with weapons? that would help
	6:09pm coelacanth∅: i think a handful of hungry tigers let loose in the ring would be a good idea, just to be safe.
	6:09pm listener 126464: Let's settle this in the Pentagon.
	6:09pm G: ↳ tim @6:07 After awhile, AI's large language databases get full of more and more AI-generated wording off the internet, and it's just AI masturbating itself or circle-jerking and therefore gets to be more worthless, with no innovative human input of thinking and wording.
	6:09pm yippie: they should fight on the temple mount in jerusalem
	6:10pm Jeff Moore: Dukin' Dweebs?
	6:10pm chresti: Lol rastle of the assholes
	6:11pm Tome: Jew Jitsu ?? HEY NOW !<>!
	🤖 6:11pm tim: If Musk and Zuckerberg seriously have a fight, they will do something that no one has ever done… make Donald Trump look dignified.
	6:12pm melinda: hi friends
	6:12pm Carmichael: Can they both die?
	6:12pm Brendan: Nix the weapons idea. I have a better idea make them wrestle naked. That way they both lose, and nobody watches.
	6:12pm DanFA: Boooooo. Dump this chump.
	6:12pm Ciggy: They're Humans?
	🤖 6:12pm tim: Hey Melinda!
	6:12pm coelacanth∅: obviously the whole thing will be staged, and people will pay to watch it. more money for them and their advertisers.
	6:14pm diciassette: I'm pretty sure that they made these billion dollar companies so they could fight somebody to the death someday.
	6:14pm dale: zuckerberg is most likely to bite an earlobe off.
	6:15pm Kat in the chat: coo coo ka choo
	6:15pm Robm: i could care less about zuck and musk do to each other, a pox on both their houses
	6:15pm Marie in Queens: Clash of the Clueless? ?
	6:15pm G: Zuckyboy was a sawedoff shrimpy little weenie weasel even in college. Explains a lot haha
	🤖 6:16pm Handy Haversack: When does the happy start?
	🤖 6:16pm tim: Is this fight for real? Serious question.
	6:16pm (Murakami Whywolf))): ↳ G @6:15 Sure, but there are plenty of shrimpy little weasels who never get anywhere.
	6:16pm Brendan: Nix the nekid wrestling idea. I think the catalyst that will really push this over the top is the introduction of a third-party, a grizzly bear, into the cage match. Then we all win.
	6:17pm DanFA: ↳ tim @6:16 It's serious, Tim.
	🤖 6:17pm Will thee Sound Guy: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:03 Doomed
	6:17pm DanFA: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:17 Dooooooooomed
	6:17pm G: ↳ (Murakami Whywolf))) @6:16 I forgot to mention the ruthless manipulative factor. Or did weasel include that? lol
	🤖 6:17pm tim: ↳ DanFA @6:17 Dammit!
	6:18pm DanFA: ↳ tim @6:17 Will it happen? Who knows.
	6:18pm (((Murakami Whywolf): Either you believe that it were possible for an A.I. eventually to do whatever an human does, or you're not a strict materialist. It's as simple as that.
	6:18pm dale: they could sumo wrestle....seeing them both in diapers would be pretty sweet.
	6:18pm chresti: Hi Ken I think zuck and muck should wrestle nude in a pool of fish oil
	6:19pm Carmichael: I’m waiting for the Andy Cohen vs Perez Hilton sissy boy smack down.
	🤖 6:19pm Handy Haversack: Really does suck you couldn't get the internet to make fun of someone. I guess we've become too GOOD as a society. Hopefully the pendulum swings the other way soon.
	🤖 6:19pm tim: ↳ chresti @6:18 Hey! Take that dirty talk elsewhere, chresti! ;)
	6:20pm Carmichael: Can we get a non IT caller, fer chrissakes
	6:20pm Marie in Queens: I'm glad to hear AI will get worse and worse and then we will hopefully be able to spot it when we see it
	🤖 6:20pm PaulRobeson1923: AI will never have what we have
	6:21pm G: AI is kinda like Jack radio format, if people remember that.
	🤖 6:21pm Will thee Sound Guy: ↳ DanFA @6:17 * in your finest Professor Farnsworth Voice*
	6:21pm dale: trump needs to sponsor musk.
	🤖 6:21pm PaulRobeson1923: ↳ PaulRobeson1923 @6:20 Our precious bowel fluids
	6:22pm The Butterman: Lay and pray.
	6:22pm DanFA: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:21 You bet.
	6:23pm (((Murakami Whywolf): John was actually the walrus, he just _said_ that Paul was the walrus because he was trying to be nice.
	6:24pm Ciggy: I miss Happy Hour 🍾
	6:24pm G: AI is autotune for language.
	6:24pm The Butterman: How about a two-headed dog crossover where we put both their heads on one body( either one’s body) and blast them into space to duke it out on the moon.
	6:24pm Carmichael: He could make a guitar SPEAK!
	6:24pm (Murakami Whywolf))): Was that Steve Wolfram's stuff? Brilliant programmer, _terrible_ boss.
	6:25pm yippie: the technology that makes me happy is The Regina Hexaphone
	6:25pm (((Murakami Whywolf): For one thing, Musk makes smoking pot look like a thing only arseholes do, and that's a shame.
	6:26pm diciassette: hello! fsck spotify!
	6:27pm Marie in Queens: BTW, peeps, the best place to get US weather--sans ads--is from the NWS
	6:27pm efd: oh I was going to ask you about RDS!
	🤖 6:28pm Will thee Sound Guy: I like the Linux program Hydrogen drum machine... Program the beat and you can vary the timing strength of hit or other variables .. not AI but fun
	6:28pm efd: ↳ efd @6:27 I noticed different data showing up recently
	6:28pm john_zilla: wait what's wrong with RDS?
	🤖 6:28pm tim: Don’t get me started on the Bunny on the Rock’n’Soul Stream. I do not like that Bunny!
	6:29pm The Butterman: Oh I was wondering why all of a sudden my car screen was showing a slow as “f” song name and such.
	6:30pm coelacanth∅: ↳ tim @6:28 that bunny should die!
	🤖 6:30pm Will thee Sound Guy: I'm on the Mt Hope 🗼... No RDS info
	🤖 6:30pm Will thee Sound Guy: ↳ coelacanth∅ @6:30 It's Rabbit 🐰 season!
	6:31pm coelacanth∅: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:30 hahaha!
	🤖 6:31pm Ken From Hyde Park: The future is talking GIFs, duh!
	🤖 6:32pm tim: What about the fungal artwork?
	6:33pm coelacanth∅: i read about "ai" drone kills at least 12 years ago.
	6:33pm Carmichael: We’ve already experienced the military AI, it’s called Skynet. Oh wait, that’s in the future.
	6:33pm Joshua: Don’t forget about the Chat GPT sex toy from that Gizmodo article Ken referenced
	6:33pm dale: a.i. = artificial insemination?
	6:34pm (((Murakami Whywolf): Given that a fair number of humans can not generate even the _illusion_ of intelligence….
	6:34pm Eugene R: Best Internet poll: Which of the following is the most important Internet-based innovation? a) Illegal taxi service b) Illegal hotel chain c) Fake money for criminal uses d) Plagiarism machines
	6:35pm Ciggy: Your telling me that NVIDIA Corporation (NVDA) @ $464 / share is about to burst?
	6:35pm Sam: I thought model collapse was when an anorexic model forgets to eat her daily piece of celery
	6:36pm coelacanth∅: the "ai" suicide hotline reminds me of, also over 12 years ago, these "human-like" robots being developed for "comforting" people in hospice. what the Fuck is wrong with people??
	6:36pm G: It's a great battle of delusional utopians (AI will create final perfect knowledge -- FantasyLand) and delusional dystopians (we're gonna let AI ruin everything, and displace humans from the thinking that only they are able to do -- because AI is simply derivative and syntheticizing). Both are wrong.
	🤖 6:36pm Ken From Hyde Park: ↳ Eugene R @6:34 Haha, I remember seeing that!
	6:36pm MarkMTL: Yes, Alvin saw it all coming!
	6:37pm Kat in the chat: I love any excuse for I am sitting in a room
	6:38pm diciassette: I am sitting in a Chinese room.
	🤖 6:39pm Webhamster Henry: You know I did I Am Sitting In A Zoom, right?
	6:40pm Sam: Hippie noise
	🤖 6:40pm PaulRobeson1923: Ken is inside the room
	6:40pm Marie in Queens: It's like the adults in Charlie Brown
	🤖 6:40pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Kat in the chat @6:37 Word.
	🤖 6:40pm Webhamster Henry: You you are hearing is indeed the room, but also resonant qualities of the mic , the speakers, the amplification circuits and tape distortion.
	🤖 6:40pm PaulRobeson1923: Wow
	6:40pm G: It's kinda like a number of FMU programs, no names though hahaha
	🤖 6:41pm Webhamster Henry: for his 90th birthday, 90 artists did their own takes on it.
	6:41pm Jackie G: can we start it's complicated early today?
	🤖 6:42pm Ken From Hyde Park: It's like how you integrate a 1x1 square over and over and wind up with a Gaussian curve.
	6:42pm G: ↳ Jackie G @6:41 This is complicated.
	🤖 6:43pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:41 here it is: www.youtube.com...
	6:43pm coelacanth∅: i just hope it all collapses fast enough to be catastrophic.
	6:43pm Juli: <<<<<33333
	6:44pm melinda: ↳ coelacanth∅ @6:43 catastrophic in what sense?
	6:44pm Cooh John: ARTIFICIAL! intelligence. What could possibly go wrong?
	6:45pm Jackie G: Didn't someone say it all sounds like Charley Brown's teacher? Well, it does
	6:45pm Kat in the chat: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:41 our friend Ira Kaplan among them
	6:45pm G: ↳ Cooh John @6:44 People will see something sucks when there is enough of it that that becomes obvious.
	6:46pm Brendan: Wouldn't obstruct replication, but it does give rise to an error in replication. - So that the newly formed DNA strand carries a mutation and you've got a virus again. - But this, all of this, is academic. - You were made as well as we could make you. - But not to last.
	🤖 6:46pm Webhamster Henry: A GAN is a "Generative Adversarial Network" , that is, it generates its own training examples. This has been happening for years, and in fact, it's very effective. en.wikipedia.org...
	6:46pm coelacanth∅: ↳ melinda @6:44 in being declared unsalvageable for economic profit. in other words for the "developers" (companies) to give up on it.
	6:48pm Dano59: Collapse is welcome, but ... the sampling is already corrupted by the multitude of lies, distortions, fact-denial and mis-/disinformation. i'm sure Rudy G's 'Truth isn't truth!' will be a model forensic argument in the near future.
	6:48pm dale: the wayback machine on the the internet archive probably has that date well stashed away.
	🤖 6:48pm Ken From Hyde Park: A.I. Shakespeare could be a cool play to see. 🎭
	6:48pm JR: And please print out the internet
	🤖 6:48pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ Kat in the chat @6:45 Here's my "I am sitting in a Zoom": vimeo.com...
	6:48pm Dano59: ... that's the mentality of just fixing the one bad line of code
	6:49pm G: ↳ dale @6:48 Wayback does not have everything that is/was on the www.
	6:49pm Chris from Brooklyn: Missed the Mysk vs Zook battle call in portion of the program In the event it’s held in the Roman Coliseum (Ken did say Coliseum and the felt forum long gone so assumptions follow) THE HOOK zook looks an Awful Lot like the famous statue “Augustus of Primaporta” No doubt about it. He definitely sees the likeness hisself. Given his disregard for Republican norms. Ok. Mussk We can promote him as the Marcus Antonius in the scenario. The modern version of the Roman Civil War can be the hook. Let’s be for real. They represent the modern version of the Patricians playing dice with our lives. But as The Zook has the training fitness and MERCILESS nature down I predict his possible victory just like all the other sport books I noticed since y’all brought this nonsense to my attention. I’ve been on MEDIABLACKOUT. Had enough endless nonsense for one life thx. To quote the now bats Lionel: Comment as you see fit. And like him I will never deign to respond. Peace. As for the title to apply. Having difficulties rhyming Coliseum etc Peace
	6:50pm diciassette: So just what is the motivation for making something that passes the Turing Test?
	6:50pm Jackie G: Sheesh
	6:51pm Matt from OK: I feel like the algorithms have been training themselves on their own output for some time with YouTube, Facebook, Twitter reinforcing and spreading the content pushed to the fore by advertising algorithms in the first place.
	6:51pm Dano59: ↳ tim @6:28 that's why the chat feature didn't vet you - Bunny ratted you out
	6:52pm Brendan: Super model collapse is a beautiful thing. Especially when it involves heels and a gaudy outfit.
	🤖 6:52pm tim: ↳ Dano59 @6:51 Grrrrrr, that friggin Bunny!
	🤖 6:53pm tim: ↳ Dano59 @6:51 Frickinbustinmychopsmuttermuttermutter
	6:53pm Hunterian: Faded - collapsing new models Watch them - collapsing Dated - collapsing new people Hated - collapsing new AIs Watch them - collapsing…
	6:53pm Dano59: oops all of my motion-capture ping pong balls just fell off
	6:53pm Joshua: I’ve used transformer models for five years or so, just for fun. And I’ve enjoyed the experience of dialing the settings to create wacky language based on quotes from authors I liked, cutting it down, smashing it back together into a prose poem or something. A different thing from the automated, uncut drudgery that now proliferates all over the Internet. Just wanted to say, I think there are human ways to use these things to make wonderful collage art, among other things, and we should look for those.
	🤖 6:54pm Webhamster Henry: There is a group that's trying to push for digital provenance tracking. That is, if the media you read doesn't have this tracking, that's a hint that perhaps you shouldn't trust it. And if it DOES have that tracking record, you can at least tell it came from Breitbart, or The Onion, or the NYTimes or other sites whose accuracy you can make your own evaluation of. opensource.contentauthenticity.org
	6:54pm Marie in Queens: I think people will start restricting, more and more, their internet use to their tried and true websites
	6:54pm SeaCreature: Omg. I’m giving in. Shots! Are these posts bylined by reputable journalists whose past stories you can review?
	🤖 6:55pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ Joshua @6:53 They used to be more fun when they got off the rails. Now they just spit out a lot of "safe" pablum full of "weasel words".
	6:55pm (Murakami Whywolf))): Either A.I.s will be able to tell A.I.-generated content from human-generated content, in which case it will be able to continue to train on the human-generated only and there will be no model-collapse, or else the two will be indistinguishable, in which case model-collapse will have been irrelevant.
	🤖 6:56pm Webhamster Henry: There have been some false positives of AI detectors rejecting human written papers. That doesn't mean they were GOOD papers!
	🤖 6:56pm tim: Thanks, Ken! I appreciate your Techtonic fill ins!
	6:58pm G: Planet Earth is blue And there's nothing I can do
	6:58pm su: the kiddie section of the nyt recently had a quizlet to identify blurbs written by ai vs humans. turns out the ai ones could be identified pretty easily because they were sentimental and overly didactic
	6:58pm dale: zuck should come up with a move called the 'walrus club.' in poor taste, true - but effective.
	6:58pm diciassette: This is great advice.
	6:58pm Chris from Brooklyn: Oh. Ken Up in Sullivan county near White Lake the Hudson valley antenna was occasionally blacked out by a local ORTHODOXJMSTATION even on Shabbat. Schlock rock. Klezmatics. Even old school 1920’s Second avenue music. Made me smile ear to ear. NachumSegal would get a good laugh too. Shalom
	6:58pm milkis: Is WFMU concerned about the archives getting downloaded and used to help train a music model? I’d love to see Spotify start randomly spotlighting a don felder rip off because it’s been thoroughly trained on Heavy Metal and thinks it’s a super popular song.
	🤖 6:58pm tim: ↳ dale @6:58 Ooooh, genius!
	6:59pm coelacanth∅: but on the bright side, if musky gains another 75# he might have a heart attack in the ring
	6:59pm Marie in Queens: Thanks, Ken
	6:59pm diciassette: Thank you S.M. Ken!
	6:59pm Dano59: I don't think. errors of fact, grammar or syntax mean an absence of human intervention. Copy editors et al. have been obsoleted, effectively
	6:59pm SeaCreature: Thanks boss. Good show
	6:59pm Juli: Ty Ken!
	🤖 6:59pm Bas NL: Thanks Ken! From the bottom of my processor!
	6:59pm Ciggy: I demand the return of The Martingale Method!!!
	6:59pm Chris from Brooklyn: Ken always fills the Techtonic voids so well
	🤖 6:59pm Ken From Hyde Park: Musk pulling out one of his flamethrowers! Thanks, SMK!
	6:59pm coelacanth∅: Thanks Ken
	🤖 7:00pm Will thee Sound Guy: Thank you Ken and all!!!
	7:03pm Matt from OK: Thanks for some real news and insight on the AI revolution.
	7:03pm Chris from Brooklyn: ↳ Marie in Queens @6:15 WINNER!!!!!
	7:08pm Kat in the chat: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:48 oh yay! I will watch!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from July 17, 2023

View Mark Hurst's profile

Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Dec 23rd, 6pm - 7pm: Don Fleming guest hosts Techtonic

July 17, 2023: Station Manager Ken guest hosts The Happy Episode of Techtonic

Listen to this show: MP3 - 128K | Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

Thanks to Brett for this proof of Apple's true feelings

Here's an academic paper called The Curse of Recursion: Training on Generated Data Makes Models Forget, by Ilia Shumailov and others

And speaking of "Model Collapse,

Here are a few articles from the business press about it:

The AI feedback loop: Researchers warn of ‘model collapse’ as AI trains on AI-generated content (VentureBeat)

AIs trained on other AI output will start producing junk within a few generations, scientists warn (Business Insider)

Artist	Track	Album	Label	Year	Format	Comments	Images	New * / Special ***	Approx. start time

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Listener comments!
	🤖 5:59pm Will thee Sound Guy: Hi Staysh and all!!! Time to Tech!!!
	🤖 5:59pm Handy Haversack: Hello, Ken and all the Techyon Drives. I am producing junk already as well.
	🤖 6:00pm Webhamster Henry: It's KenGPT!
	🤖 6:01pm Bas NL: Hi SM Ken! Hi all!
	🤖 6:02pm PaulRobeson1923: Hi Hi Hi!
	🤖 6:02pm Will thee Sound Guy: I put the foil lining inside my WFMU Bucket hat... lol 😆
	🤖 6:03pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:02 That won't save you -- the crazy is coming form inside the hat!!
	6:03pm lazy pierogi: breakin’ the AI baby yeah
	🤖 6:03pm PaulRobeson1923: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:02 Already inside you
	6:03pm dale: hey now - it's kentronics!
	🤖 6:03pm Bas NL: <Bummer...
	6:03pm diciassette: get happy!
	6:03pm DanFA: Good Evening Station Manager Ken.
	6:03pm Matt: I'd love to stay to hear Ken host today, but am off to an appointment instead - catch you later.
	6:04pm Listener Robert: I hope Ken explains the graphic.
	6:04pm Kat in the chat: I'm annoyed and alienated, darn it
	🤖 6:04pm tim: Hello Staysh Hurst! Hello Will, Handy and everyone!
	6:04pm DanFA: Did Mark get lost in Meta again?
	6:05pm G: Artificial Unintelligence
	6:06pm SeaCreature: Happy? I don’t get to play my mark rant drinking game?
	🤖 6:06pm tim: ↳ Kat in the chat @6:04 Hi Kat! That’s funny. I happen to be alienated and annoyed!
	6:06pm dale: can a.i. write good donkey sex novellas? that's the true tesy.
	6:06pm Rolando: Looking forward to todays show. - written by a real human
	🤖 6:07pm tim: Serious question - Ken, can you explain content collapse?
	🤖 6:07pm Webhamster Henry: As long as it's trained on the internet, ML Chatbots will be demonstrating garbage in, garbage out. For years SEO has warped websites into chum-filled nothingburgers.
	6:07pm DanFA: Colisseum in Rome.
	6:08pm (Murakami Whywolf))): I don't think the Model Collapse will happen, because 0.) the best modellers will get better at discriminating between humn- and A.I.-generated content, and 1.) Humans on the web will imitate the A.I. content—this is related to mine old idea, generated after hearing two people talking on the bus who sounded like any number of televised advertisements, that the Turing Test will definitively be passed when human beings' conversations become all the more rote-like and uninteresting.
	🤖 6:08pm DjLorraine: Evening all. Have them fight in a slum area for real excitement
	6:09pm Brendan: Can we provide them with weapons? that would help
	6:09pm coelacanth∅: i think a handful of hungry tigers let loose in the ring would be a good idea, just to be safe.
	6:09pm listener 126464: Let's settle this in the Pentagon.
	6:09pm G: ↳ tim @6:07 After awhile, AI's large language databases get full of more and more AI-generated wording off the internet, and it's just AI masturbating itself or circle-jerking and therefore gets to be more worthless, with no innovative human input of thinking and wording.
	6:09pm yippie: they should fight on the temple mount in jerusalem
	6:10pm Jeff Moore: Dukin' Dweebs?
	6:10pm chresti: Lol rastle of the assholes
	6:11pm Tome: Jew Jitsu ?? HEY NOW !<>!
	🤖 6:11pm tim: If Musk and Zuckerberg seriously have a fight, they will do something that no one has ever done… make Donald Trump look dignified.
	6:12pm melinda: hi friends
	6:12pm Carmichael: Can they both die?
	6:12pm Brendan: Nix the weapons idea. I have a better idea make them wrestle naked. That way they both lose, and nobody watches.
	6:12pm DanFA: Boooooo. Dump this chump.
	6:12pm Ciggy: They're Humans?
	🤖 6:12pm tim: Hey Melinda!
	6:12pm coelacanth∅: obviously the whole thing will be staged, and people will pay to watch it. more money for them and their advertisers.
	6:14pm diciassette: I'm pretty sure that they made these billion dollar companies so they could fight somebody to the death someday.
	6:14pm dale: zuckerberg is most likely to bite an earlobe off.
	6:15pm Kat in the chat: coo coo ka choo
	6:15pm Robm: i could care less about zuck and musk do to each other, a pox on both their houses
	6:15pm Marie in Queens: Clash of the Clueless? ?
	6:15pm G: Zuckyboy was a sawedoff shrimpy little weenie weasel even in college. Explains a lot haha
	🤖 6:16pm Handy Haversack: When does the happy start?
	🤖 6:16pm tim: Is this fight for real? Serious question.
	6:16pm (Murakami Whywolf))): ↳ G @6:15 Sure, but there are plenty of shrimpy little weasels who never get anywhere.
	6:16pm Brendan: Nix the nekid wrestling idea. I think the catalyst that will really push this over the top is the introduction of a third-party, a grizzly bear, into the cage match. Then we all win.
	6:17pm DanFA: ↳ tim @6:16 It's serious, Tim.
	🤖 6:17pm Will thee Sound Guy: ↳ Handy Haversack @6:03 Doomed
	6:17pm DanFA: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:17 Dooooooooomed
	6:17pm G: ↳ (Murakami Whywolf))) @6:16 I forgot to mention the ruthless manipulative factor. Or did weasel include that? lol
	🤖 6:17pm tim: ↳ DanFA @6:17 Dammit!
	6:18pm DanFA: ↳ tim @6:17 Will it happen? Who knows.
	6:18pm (((Murakami Whywolf): Either you believe that it were possible for an A.I. eventually to do whatever an human does, or you're not a strict materialist. It's as simple as that.
	6:18pm dale: they could sumo wrestle....seeing them both in diapers would be pretty sweet.
	6:18pm chresti: Hi Ken I think zuck and muck should wrestle nude in a pool of fish oil
	6:19pm Carmichael: I’m waiting for the Andy Cohen vs Perez Hilton sissy boy smack down.
	🤖 6:19pm Handy Haversack: Really does suck you couldn't get the internet to make fun of someone. I guess we've become too GOOD as a society. Hopefully the pendulum swings the other way soon.
	🤖 6:19pm tim: ↳ chresti @6:18 Hey! Take that dirty talk elsewhere, chresti! ;)
	6:20pm Carmichael: Can we get a non IT caller, fer chrissakes
	6:20pm Marie in Queens: I'm glad to hear AI will get worse and worse and then we will hopefully be able to spot it when we see it
	🤖 6:20pm PaulRobeson1923: AI will never have what we have
	6:21pm G: AI is kinda like Jack radio format, if people remember that.
	🤖 6:21pm Will thee Sound Guy: ↳ DanFA @6:17 * in your finest Professor Farnsworth Voice*
	6:21pm dale: trump needs to sponsor musk.
	🤖 6:21pm PaulRobeson1923: ↳ PaulRobeson1923 @6:20 Our precious bowel fluids
	6:22pm The Butterman: Lay and pray.
	6:22pm DanFA: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:21 You bet.
	6:23pm (((Murakami Whywolf): John was actually the walrus, he just _said_ that Paul was the walrus because he was trying to be nice.
	6:24pm Ciggy: I miss Happy Hour 🍾
	6:24pm G: AI is autotune for language.
	6:24pm The Butterman: How about a two-headed dog crossover where we put both their heads on one body( either one’s body) and blast them into space to duke it out on the moon.
	6:24pm Carmichael: He could make a guitar SPEAK!
	6:24pm (Murakami Whywolf))): Was that Steve Wolfram's stuff? Brilliant programmer, _terrible_ boss.
	6:25pm yippie: the technology that makes me happy is The Regina Hexaphone
	6:25pm (((Murakami Whywolf): For one thing, Musk makes smoking pot look like a thing only arseholes do, and that's a shame.
	6:26pm diciassette: hello! fsck spotify!
	6:27pm Marie in Queens: BTW, peeps, the best place to get US weather--sans ads--is from the NWS
	6:27pm efd: oh I was going to ask you about RDS!
	🤖 6:28pm Will thee Sound Guy: I like the Linux program Hydrogen drum machine... Program the beat and you can vary the timing strength of hit or other variables .. not AI but fun
	6:28pm efd: ↳ efd @6:27 I noticed different data showing up recently
	6:28pm john_zilla: wait what's wrong with RDS?
	🤖 6:28pm tim: Don’t get me started on the Bunny on the Rock’n’Soul Stream. I do not like that Bunny!
	6:29pm The Butterman: Oh I was wondering why all of a sudden my car screen was showing a slow as “f” song name and such.
	6:30pm coelacanth∅: ↳ tim @6:28 that bunny should die!
	🤖 6:30pm Will thee Sound Guy: I'm on the Mt Hope 🗼... No RDS info
	🤖 6:30pm Will thee Sound Guy: ↳ coelacanth∅ @6:30 It's Rabbit 🐰 season!
	6:31pm coelacanth∅: ↳ Will thee Sound Guy @6:30 hahaha!
	🤖 6:31pm Ken From Hyde Park: The future is talking GIFs, duh!
	🤖 6:32pm tim: What about the fungal artwork?
	6:33pm coelacanth∅: i read about "ai" drone kills at least 12 years ago.
	6:33pm Carmichael: We’ve already experienced the military AI, it’s called Skynet. Oh wait, that’s in the future.
	6:33pm Joshua: Don’t forget about the Chat GPT sex toy from that Gizmodo article Ken referenced
	6:33pm dale: a.i. = artificial insemination?
	6:34pm (((Murakami Whywolf): Given that a fair number of humans can not generate even the _illusion_ of intelligence….
	6:34pm Eugene R: Best Internet poll: Which of the following is the most important Internet-based innovation? a) Illegal taxi service b) Illegal hotel chain c) Fake money for criminal uses d) Plagiarism machines
	6:35pm Ciggy: Your telling me that NVIDIA Corporation (NVDA) @ $464 / share is about to burst?
	6:35pm Sam: I thought model collapse was when an anorexic model forgets to eat her daily piece of celery
	6:36pm coelacanth∅: the "ai" suicide hotline reminds me of, also over 12 years ago, these "human-like" robots being developed for "comforting" people in hospice. what the Fuck is wrong with people??
	6:36pm G: It's a great battle of delusional utopians (AI will create final perfect knowledge -- FantasyLand) and delusional dystopians (we're gonna let AI ruin everything, and displace humans from the thinking that only they are able to do -- because AI is simply derivative and syntheticizing). Both are wrong.
	🤖 6:36pm Ken From Hyde Park: ↳ Eugene R @6:34 Haha, I remember seeing that!
	6:36pm MarkMTL: Yes, Alvin saw it all coming!
	6:37pm Kat in the chat: I love any excuse for I am sitting in a room
	6:38pm diciassette: I am sitting in a Chinese room.
	🤖 6:39pm Webhamster Henry: You know I did I Am Sitting In A Zoom, right?
	6:40pm Sam: Hippie noise
	🤖 6:40pm PaulRobeson1923: Ken is inside the room
	6:40pm Marie in Queens: It's like the adults in Charlie Brown
	🤖 6:40pm Handy Haversack: ↳ Kat in the chat @6:37 Word.
	🤖 6:40pm Webhamster Henry: You you are hearing is indeed the room, but also resonant qualities of the mic , the speakers, the amplification circuits and tape distortion.
	🤖 6:40pm PaulRobeson1923: Wow
	6:40pm G: It's kinda like a number of FMU programs, no names though hahaha
	🤖 6:41pm Webhamster Henry: for his 90th birthday, 90 artists did their own takes on it.
	6:41pm Jackie G: can we start it's complicated early today?
	🤖 6:42pm Ken From Hyde Park: It's like how you integrate a 1x1 square over and over and wind up with a Gaussian curve.
	6:42pm G: ↳ Jackie G @6:41 This is complicated.
	🤖 6:43pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:41 here it is: www.youtube.com...
	6:43pm coelacanth∅: i just hope it all collapses fast enough to be catastrophic.
	6:43pm Juli: <<<<<33333
	6:44pm melinda: ↳ coelacanth∅ @6:43 catastrophic in what sense?
	6:44pm Cooh John: ARTIFICIAL! intelligence. What could possibly go wrong?
	6:45pm Jackie G: Didn't someone say it all sounds like Charley Brown's teacher? Well, it does
	6:45pm Kat in the chat: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:41 our friend Ira Kaplan among them
	6:45pm G: ↳ Cooh John @6:44 People will see something sucks when there is enough of it that that becomes obvious.
	6:46pm Brendan: Wouldn't obstruct replication, but it does give rise to an error in replication. - So that the newly formed DNA strand carries a mutation and you've got a virus again. - But this, all of this, is academic. - You were made as well as we could make you. - But not to last.
	🤖 6:46pm Webhamster Henry: A GAN is a "Generative Adversarial Network" , that is, it generates its own training examples. This has been happening for years, and in fact, it's very effective. en.wikipedia.org...
	6:46pm coelacanth∅: ↳ melinda @6:44 in being declared unsalvageable for economic profit. in other words for the "developers" (companies) to give up on it.
	6:48pm Dano59: Collapse is welcome, but ... the sampling is already corrupted by the multitude of lies, distortions, fact-denial and mis-/disinformation. i'm sure Rudy G's 'Truth isn't truth!' will be a model forensic argument in the near future.
	6:48pm dale: the wayback machine on the the internet archive probably has that date well stashed away.
	🤖 6:48pm Ken From Hyde Park: A.I. Shakespeare could be a cool play to see. 🎭
	6:48pm JR: And please print out the internet
	🤖 6:48pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ Kat in the chat @6:45 Here's my "I am sitting in a Zoom": vimeo.com...
	6:48pm Dano59: ... that's the mentality of just fixing the one bad line of code
	6:49pm G: ↳ dale @6:48 Wayback does not have everything that is/was on the www.
	6:49pm Chris from Brooklyn: Missed the Mysk vs Zook battle call in portion of the program In the event it’s held in the Roman Coliseum (Ken did say Coliseum and the felt forum long gone so assumptions follow) THE HOOK zook looks an Awful Lot like the famous statue “Augustus of Primaporta” No doubt about it. He definitely sees the likeness hisself. Given his disregard for Republican norms. Ok. Mussk We can promote him as the Marcus Antonius in the scenario. The modern version of the Roman Civil War can be the hook. Let’s be for real. They represent the modern version of the Patricians playing dice with our lives. But as The Zook has the training fitness and MERCILESS nature down I predict his possible victory just like all the other sport books I noticed since y’all brought this nonsense to my attention. I’ve been on MEDIABLACKOUT. Had enough endless nonsense for one life thx. To quote the now bats Lionel: Comment as you see fit. And like him I will never deign to respond. Peace. As for the title to apply. Having difficulties rhyming Coliseum etc Peace
	6:50pm diciassette: So just what is the motivation for making something that passes the Turing Test?
	6:50pm Jackie G: Sheesh
	6:51pm Matt from OK: I feel like the algorithms have been training themselves on their own output for some time with YouTube, Facebook, Twitter reinforcing and spreading the content pushed to the fore by advertising algorithms in the first place.
	6:51pm Dano59: ↳ tim @6:28 that's why the chat feature didn't vet you - Bunny ratted you out
	6:52pm Brendan: Super model collapse is a beautiful thing. Especially when it involves heels and a gaudy outfit.
	🤖 6:52pm tim: ↳ Dano59 @6:51 Grrrrrr, that friggin Bunny!
	🤖 6:53pm tim: ↳ Dano59 @6:51 Frickinbustinmychopsmuttermuttermutter
	6:53pm Hunterian: Faded - collapsing new models Watch them - collapsing Dated - collapsing new people Hated - collapsing new AIs Watch them - collapsing…
	6:53pm Dano59: oops all of my motion-capture ping pong balls just fell off
	6:53pm Joshua: I’ve used transformer models for five years or so, just for fun. And I’ve enjoyed the experience of dialing the settings to create wacky language based on quotes from authors I liked, cutting it down, smashing it back together into a prose poem or something. A different thing from the automated, uncut drudgery that now proliferates all over the Internet. Just wanted to say, I think there are human ways to use these things to make wonderful collage art, among other things, and we should look for those.
	🤖 6:54pm Webhamster Henry: There is a group that's trying to push for digital provenance tracking. That is, if the media you read doesn't have this tracking, that's a hint that perhaps you shouldn't trust it. And if it DOES have that tracking record, you can at least tell it came from Breitbart, or The Onion, or the NYTimes or other sites whose accuracy you can make your own evaluation of. opensource.contentauthenticity.org
	6:54pm Marie in Queens: I think people will start restricting, more and more, their internet use to their tried and true websites
	6:54pm SeaCreature: Omg. I’m giving in. Shots! Are these posts bylined by reputable journalists whose past stories you can review?
	🤖 6:55pm Webhamster Henry: ↳ Joshua @6:53 They used to be more fun when they got off the rails. Now they just spit out a lot of "safe" pablum full of "weasel words".
	6:55pm (Murakami Whywolf))): Either A.I.s will be able to tell A.I.-generated content from human-generated content, in which case it will be able to continue to train on the human-generated only and there will be no model-collapse, or else the two will be indistinguishable, in which case model-collapse will have been irrelevant.
	🤖 6:56pm Webhamster Henry: There have been some false positives of AI detectors rejecting human written papers. That doesn't mean they were GOOD papers!
	🤖 6:56pm tim: Thanks, Ken! I appreciate your Techtonic fill ins!
	6:58pm G: Planet Earth is blue And there's nothing I can do
	6:58pm su: the kiddie section of the nyt recently had a quizlet to identify blurbs written by ai vs humans. turns out the ai ones could be identified pretty easily because they were sentimental and overly didactic
	6:58pm dale: zuck should come up with a move called the 'walrus club.' in poor taste, true - but effective.
	6:58pm diciassette: This is great advice.
	6:58pm Chris from Brooklyn: Oh. Ken Up in Sullivan county near White Lake the Hudson valley antenna was occasionally blacked out by a local ORTHODOXJMSTATION even on Shabbat. Schlock rock. Klezmatics. Even old school 1920’s Second avenue music. Made me smile ear to ear. NachumSegal would get a good laugh too. Shalom
	6:58pm milkis: Is WFMU concerned about the archives getting downloaded and used to help train a music model? I’d love to see Spotify start randomly spotlighting a don felder rip off because it’s been thoroughly trained on Heavy Metal and thinks it’s a super popular song.
	🤖 6:58pm tim: ↳ dale @6:58 Ooooh, genius!
	6:59pm coelacanth∅: but on the bright side, if musky gains another 75# he might have a heart attack in the ring
	6:59pm Marie in Queens: Thanks, Ken
	6:59pm diciassette: Thank you S.M. Ken!
	6:59pm Dano59: I don't think. errors of fact, grammar or syntax mean an absence of human intervention. Copy editors et al. have been obsoleted, effectively
	6:59pm SeaCreature: Thanks boss. Good show
	6:59pm Juli: Ty Ken!
	🤖 6:59pm Bas NL: Thanks Ken! From the bottom of my processor!
	6:59pm Ciggy: I demand the return of The Martingale Method!!!
	6:59pm Chris from Brooklyn: Ken always fills the Techtonic voids so well
	🤖 6:59pm Ken From Hyde Park: Musk pulling out one of his flamethrowers! Thanks, SMK!
	6:59pm coelacanth∅: Thanks Ken
	🤖 7:00pm Will thee Sound Guy: Thank you Ken and all!!!
	7:03pm Matt from OK: Thanks for some real news and insight on the AI revolution.
	7:03pm Chris from Brooklyn: ↳ Marie in Queens @6:15 WINNER!!!!!
	7:08pm Kat in the chat: ↳ Webhamster Henry @6:48 oh yay! I will watch!

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from July 17, 2023

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