WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from November 29, 2021

Listener comments!
	🤖 6:01pm tim from washington: Hey Staysh! Lay it on us!
	🤖 6:02pm Handy Haversack: Techgin is poured! (Well, tonight the role of Techgin will be played by Techrye, just like the role of Mark Hurst will be played by ...) Hi, Ken! Gamebuoyant! Hey out there, Techyon Drives!
	🤖 6:02pm Will the Sound Guy: Good evening, Staysh and all!!
	🤖 6:02pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! Hi digitally challenged people!
	🤖 6:03pm Bas NL: Strike that.. Hi Ken!!
	6:03pm dale: i can't get my 20 dollar gopro knockoff to talk to my computer to see the files. should i call in?
	🤖 6:03pm Webhamster Henry: Hi Techtonic Friends!
	🤖 6:03pm chresti: Hello Ken and techtones!
	🤖 6:03pm Webhamster Henry: My $20 GoPro Knockoff works fine with my computer!
	🤖 6:04pm tim from washington: Oh no! I hope Ken didn't try his brain transplant with Mark again.
	🤖 6:04pm Handy Haversack: tim, Will, Bas, Henry, cresti, Dale and all incoming Techniks, hope the Tech has not yet invaded your brainstems!
	🤖 6:04pm Webhamster Henry: How may heads does Ken have tonight?
	🤖 6:05pm Webhamster Henry: With Mark gone, we can all safely talk about our Facebook friends!
	6:05pm listener james from westwood: Evening, Ken and all!
	6:05pm Claire from Montclair: Greetings!
	6:05pm solo mon: Hi!
	6:05pm dale: henry - is there a program other than GoPlus Cam i can try?
	🤖 6:06pm tim from washington: I spy on my devices.
	🤖 6:06pm Webhamster Henry: I'm on a Mac, things "Just work" - it just shows up as a camera.
	6:06pm Sonderangebot: When I say 'chicken', I get rotisserie chicken ads. I tried dildo, though, and nothing happened. So biased!
	6:07pm tak: my smartphone microphone is busted!! and I never fixed it! 2 years I've been using external microphones I can turn off mechanically
	🤖 6:07pm Handy Haversack: Live from the Kremlin! At our baseline, we are boringly un-spied-on at home. No smartphones, no Facebook, no nothing. I am in deep internal debate as the world starts up a little bit about how to ask friends and guests to turn off their smartphones when they enter our apartment.
	6:07pm dale: oh man. my computer heard the radio and now i'm flooded with bestine coupons!
	🤖 6:08pm Webhamster Henry: I like that video where Alexa and Siri are talking to each other.
	6:08pm Marie: Wha???
	6:08pm Franco Twinkie: This was at Target in Pasadena about thirty minutes ago.
	🤖 6:08pm Will the Sound Guy: TDI targeted dream incubation... not turbo diesel injection... got it
	🤖 6:09pm Handy Haversack: Will, they can be combined.
	6:09pm dale: henry - thanks....we have a newish ipad and maybe i can get it to see that.
	6:10pm solo mon: I like the rants!
	6:10pm chris in the redwoods: it is great radio. i agree with Ken on this. also, hello, sane techies.
	6:11pm Carmichael: Let the man rant! Give him his rant!
	6:11pm Franco Twinkie: Oh for craps sake! Who likes measured? Not me!
	6:11pm MarciB: Love when Mark gets passionate - it's important !
	🤖 6:11pm Bas NL: Is Mark to be assimilated? Hope not!
	6:11pm solo mon: Measured is for baking.
	🤖 6:12pm Bas NL: Handy!!
	🤖 6:12pm tim from washington: I'm too dumb for any smart device to pick up on anything I've said.
	🤖 6:12pm Webhamster Henry: As you might know, my ex did a lot of dream talk - somniloquies, for which we actually set up a somniloquy room which had a dedicated mic channel. It'd them be edited into poems. A lot of this audio was part of the amazing Boredcast by People Like Us. Here's an example: www.wfmu.org...
	6:12pm Jackie G: Good. More Mark rants. That's the best part of the show. And Mark is right, but not enough people are listening.
	🤖 6:12pm tim from washington: Handy! Handy! Handy!
	🤖 6:12pm Will the Sound Guy: Handy!!!!
	6:13pm Franco Twinkie: If I wanted measured, I'd be listening to All Things Considered right now.
	🤖 6:13pm Webhamster Henry: Check your phone at the door, with your open carry weaponry.
	6:14pm chris in the redwoods: Handy, build a small faraday cage, put a fake recharger symbol on it, and tell people - free recharges! just drop it in the box.
	6:14pm Marie: Really good and scary article about how AI maybe able to "take over" relatively soon: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/29/yeah-were-spooked-ai-starting-to-have-big-real-world-impact-says-expert
	6:14pm Franco Twinkie: When we have people over, everyone has to put their phones in the dishwasher.
	6:14pm Sonderangebot: Phubbing shouldn't be socially acceptable!
	6:14pm Carmichael: When I walk into anyone's house, I say, "Alexa, order 20 lbs. of cottage cheese."
	6:15pm Ñ€Ð°Ð±Ð¾ÑÐ½Ð: smash their phones with a hammer.
	🤖 6:15pm Handy Haversack: Franco, that's why you're the best! I don't have a dishwasher, though ...
	6:16pm Franco Twinkie: No dessert until phones are dismantled in front of me on the kitchen table.
	6:16pm tak: I think it's reached a point where it doesn't matter if it can hear you or not. Their predictive models are already p. advanced, at least in regards to selling you stuff and services.
	6:16pm Sonderangebot: Just tell people to leave their phone on a table somewhere. See Catherine Price, I think she was a guest on Techtonic - author of How to Break Up With Your Phone.
	6:16pm Franco Twinkie: No Handy, YOU'RE the best!
	🤖 6:16pm Bas NL: I've left parties unseen while everybody was on their phone. "Why weren't you at my party?" Heh.
	6:16pm dale: jfk.hood.edu...
	6:17pm Marie: I would say something like, "hey guys, could you all do me a favor and not use your phones tonight while we are hanging out?"
	🤖 6:18pm Handy Haversack: But there's active use, and then there's the phones on passive spy mode. Without a dishwasher, how do you get everyone to deafen their phones?
	🤖 6:18pm Will the Sound Guy: definitely with ads they listen
	6:19pm dale: my hands have soaked up so much acetone from my years of doing paste up i'm sure alzheimer's is in my future.
	🤖 6:19pm Webhamster Henry: I was going to reiterate what tak said. Remember that they don't care about you, even though they are tracking your behavior and location as much as they can. Now they correlate the buying habits of whatever phone-holding persons you are near often enough in order to sell you stuff that they just bought.
	6:19pm Graham C: Hi Ken. I read an article somewhere in the last few months arguing that the AI is advanced enough now that it’s not necessary to spy directly on individuals for the purposes of targeted advertising. It’s simply a matter of triangulation—-social media and device usage are so thoroughly enmeshed in the lives of millions, and the AI can simply connect a lot of dots.
	6:19pm Marie: If you have a microwave, ask them to put it in there ? ? @) what kind of spy where are we talking about on the phones?
	6:20pm Franco Twinkie: Marie, been nice is very difficult for me. But strangely, people still want to hang out. Go figure.
	🤖 6:20pm DjLorraine: I tried to help an elderly friend at his home and after awhile he shouts “Alexa,. ..“ I felt betrayed that i wasn't told.
	6:20pm queems: what is the topic? i missed it
	🤖 6:20pm Handy Haversack: K8 got a Light Phone (www.wfmu.org...) instead of her old flip phone, but we haven't set it up yet. Because we both are kind of like, "What's a SIM card again? How do those work?" Not too hep over here, I'm afraid. Oof, DjLorraine. queems, your devices listening in and spying on you.
	6:21pm queems: @handy ah yes, that
	6:21pm Marie: @ Franco--I find it hard to believe that you hard time being nice... your buddies prolly appreciate you and know not to take that personally///
	6:21pm tak: yeah sim cards do amazing things on their own! but it's mostly just tracking for operators/agencies
	6:21pm Marie: BTW, I go through all my apps and limit their permissions as much as possible
	6:22pm queems: it upsets me but i refuse to do anything about it other than turn off siri voice activation
	6:23pm Marie: I would never have Siri or Alexa..., gotta say...
	🤖 6:23pm Webhamster Henry: For example, it doesn't matter that you don't look up "goop" if friends or neighbors (as defined by location) do. If that product is paying for product placement, it'll prioritize ads sent to you.
	6:24pm queems: my bf’s grandmother lives with him and whenever she goes away he unplugs her alexa. he hates that she has it but can’t tell her no
	6:24pm tak: yeah maybe goop is a big thing in your affluent neighbourhood
	6:24pm Franco Twinkie: Well Marie, just the other day I had someone get up from the table and stomp off in a huff because, well, I'm not sure.
	🤖 6:25pm Webhamster Henry: Now we're all going to get drug ads put in our feeds.
	🤖 6:25pm Will the Sound Guy: def suspicious, maybe a coincidence...
	🤖 6:25pm Handy Haversack: Or drug-house ads, W Henry.
	🤖 6:26pm Handy Haversack: If one didn't live in a tech universe that was controlled by advertising, one wouldn't have to wonder.
	6:26pm chris in the redwoods: "many of your friends prefer Frankie's weed, and he's right around the corner." thanks, Siri!
	6:26pm Roland from Australia: Always a good listen.
	6:26pm Marie: @Franco--I dunno...I guess you could ask
	6:27pm Marie: I am actually a bot
	6:27pm Franco Twinkie: I could - but I won't.
	🤖 6:27pm Webhamster Henry: The social network mining is pretty creepy! I once got a "suggested friend" for someone I did about 3 weeks of work with in 1995.
	🤖 6:27pm chresti: Maybe the Russians are listening in?
	🤖 6:27pm Handy Haversack: We don't judge, Marie.
	6:28pm Marie: @Handy--hee hee hee @).
	6:28pm coelacanth∅: you can "turn off microphone", but the microphone doesn't turn off. (that's fact)
	🤖 6:29pm Will the Sound Guy: apple uses the bonjour service
	6:30pm Jackie G: Quills was a good movie.
	🤖 6:30pm Will the Sound Guy: all apple devices will try to discover each device in the area
	6:30pm Roland from Australia: We need to be like Mark and use a basic flip phone.
	6:30pm chris in the redwoods: i can't find it now, so my memory could be faulty... but... a security researcher back in the early '00s found a way to send malicious code to an air-gapped (not connected to network) machine via the speaker. that shit gives me the willies.
	6:30pm dale: does alexa's mic actually turn off? she won't respond when she's lit up red but maybe she's still hearing.
	🤖 6:31pm Ken From Hyde Park: Step 1: Be smarter than your smart phone.
	6:31pm Graham C: Germane to caller Toni’s points: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/11/26/ios-privacy-settings/
	6:31pm annie: yeah, dale, i wonder if it's recording
	6:31pm Marie: It might be interesting to see what Goop is trying to sell you... grooming or mystical supplies or super-expensive objects...
	🤖 6:32pm chresti: I curse at my devices often.
	6:32pm Kenner: The paranoid old crapper hour .
	🤖 6:32pm Webhamster Henry: There are lots of interesting air gap defeat strategies.
	6:32pm Marie: @Kenner--lol
	🤖 6:33pm Bas NL: With the latest Android release it's now possible to disable remote activation of location information. Google used to be able to activate location information without your knowledge.
	6:33pm coelacanth∅: it (not "she") has a microphone, therefore shouldn't be trusted to not be recording audio. bottom line. you need to dunk it under 2-3 feet of water.
	6:33pm Gurldoggie: She's got a TDI on you, she's got a TDI.
	6:33pm Marie: I'm actually horrified by this, seriously
	6:33pm chris in the redwoods: here's an example <shivers> www.securecircle.com...
	6:33pm dale: annie in the house!
	🤖 6:33pm Handy Haversack: chris: Like the Digibomb in Cryptonomicon!
	6:34pm queems: i just started watching the sopranos an i think it would be way more interesting to watch if they all had alexas in the year 2021
	6:34pm Franco Twinkie: I use a basic flip phone. I know it makes me look like a goon, but so what?
	6:34pm tak: that's a nice project though. they would have to be so artistic, so inspired and creative and talented in order to make it happen. Intrusive marketing will be mesmerizingly beautiful!!!
	6:34pm dale: but coor's is just so lousy as far as beer goes.
	6:34pm annie: my only phone is a flipper, no smart phone for me; DALE!!!
	6:34pm dale: genny cream is betterer.
	🤖 6:34pm Handy Haversack: Franco, I have a rotary. I mean, I keep a touchtone on hand for calling the bank. I'm not a barbarian.
	6:35pm tak: I'm sure someone has dreamed [because]of that orange tango ad
	6:35pm (Murakami Whywolf))): Correlation isn't causality: if I've mentioned something in conversation, there's a very good chance that I've seen something about it already on one computer or another. I've only once experienced what seemed like having been listened-to, and I think it were actually due to the above. As far as I know, no devices usually listen to us. We've no 'smart speaker', we've supposedly turned the microphone off on our streaming device's remote (though I ought to open it and cut its cable).
	6:35pm dale: i have a collection of western electric rotaries but just dropped the landline.
	6:35pm Franco Twinkie: Us too Handy.
	6:35pm Marie: Oh dear lord, where does selling shit stop? BTW, I find it hard to believe that they could pinpoint content with much specificity. Also, I keep thinking I might need to leave America
	🤖 6:35pm Handy Haversack: queems, at some point (season 2?), they are doing something online and Tony says something like, "I don't want nuttin to do with them cookies!"
	6:37pm queems: @handy that tony soprano was a visionary
	🤖 6:37pm Webhamster Henry: When I talk to electronic devices, I usually ask "Why does the Porridge Bird Lay its egg in the air?"
	6:37pm Marie: I try to use DuckDuck Go and Ixquick
	🤖 6:38pm Webhamster Henry: www.digitalcitizen.life...
	6:38pm Franco Twinkie: Neil Young was right to bail from that basket of snakes.
	6:39pm Listener Robert: Coulda been worse, -Ken: They could've been selling you a Nash.
	6:39pm queems: i love the smell of rotten eggs and hate the smell of cigarette smoke so
	6:40pm annie: i had read about that study just a couple days ago, i think on the verge website
	6:40pm Marie: Boy, that was like a copy of sleeping with a gassy smoker, eh?
	6:40pm dale: is targeted sleep incubation like strangubation?
	🤖 6:40pm Webhamster Henry: @Ken that phenomenon came up with the email rules engine I wrote in the early 00s. For instance, if it picks up "Gun Control", it has a hard time telling whether the message is pro or con.
	6:41pm (((Murakami Whywolf): A man has been conscripted into the Soviet Army; his mother writes to him telling him that she's glad she's doing his Patriotic Duty but she misses him now that it's time to dig-up the potatoes. Her son writes back 'Maybe you can look for the treasure that the old boyar supposedly buried in the fields near our house.' She writes back "Son, the darnedest thing happened: it was easy to get the potatoes because the day I received your last letter a bunch of KGB men showed-up and dug-up all fields!'.
	6:41pm Franco Twinkie: Is their one person on this miserable planet who likes the smell of dirty ashtrays and egg farts?
	6:42pm listener james from westwood: @Franco: He left office earlier this year.
	6:43pm tak: !! music for mind control
	🤖 6:43pm Handy Haversack: The Coors plan is almost complicated enough to be a D&D tactic for my group.
	6:43pm Franco Twinkie: I would drink water from the toilet before I had a Coors.
	6:43pm annie: i hate coors!!..now if they suggested i purchase a 6-pack of ommegang beer. sure, if they spring for it, too!!!
	6:43pm StringOFperils: If you think Coor's is good, you are indeed dreaming.
	6:44pm Carmichael: My wife's family drinks Coors light by the trainload.
	6:44pm StringOFperils: Freud wrote about hypnagogic states in The Interpretation of Dreams
	🤖 6:44pm Handy Haversack: iiibeat!
	6:45pm dale: i went to ommegang! cooperstown baby!
	🤖 6:45pm chresti: Next they'll use gentle electric shock when you reach for a different brand of beer.
	🤖 6:45pm Webhamster Henry: Here's a funny WFMU-TV political ad with subliminal messages. www.youtube.com...
	🤖 6:45pm Handy Haversack: I certainly drank Ommegang in Cooperstown.
	6:45pm ARB: Waiting for Mark's wife to call in and refute Ken's baloney claims
	6:46pm Marie: My washington post page is showing me stuffed animals of endangered species sold by the World Wildlife Federation--what does that say about me?
	🤖 6:46pm Handy Haversack: Right, ARB? It reeked of a false-flag operation!
	6:47pm annie: yeah, handy, it's a good brand..i like three philosophers ..mostly
	🤖 6:47pm PaulRobeson1920: Hi ya’ll! Wowza
	6:47pm Old Dave: JG Ballard
	🤖 6:47pm tim from washington: So Coors isn't evil and authoritarian?
	6:48pm Marie: Infinite Jest...
	6:48pm Feldy: Social media knows where you are, physically, so you'll get served ads that are targeted to people you were near and may have known, regardless of what you talked about
	6:48pm annie: this is very Manchurian candiddate-ian
	🤖 6:49pm chresti: They're making them dumber with sleep deprivation?
	6:49pm StringOFperils: Coors is smooth and probiotic and full of miniature monitoring devices that attach to the inside of your body.
	6:49pm Franco Twinkie: If you run out of voodoo floor wash, use a can of Coors.
	🤖 6:50pm Webhamster Henry: Isn't the whole point of brand advertising to get into your unconscious?
	6:50pm Marie: I think Coors is an abomination of beer...
	6:50pm solo mon: People wide awake are prob more easily swayed than in sleep state.
	🤖 6:50pm chresti: They got a TV I on you!
	6:51pm JR: Mark's style of reporting on tech topics is of course interesting, but I like Ken's style better.
	🤖 6:51pm Will the Sound Guy: right...
	6:51pm solo mon: If you dream about Coors… may all your dreams come true!
	6:51pm Sonderangebot: indeed WH, see Bernays and Freud links
	6:51pm Old Dave: My snoring will disrupt any radar they develop. Bring it!
	6:51pm listener james from westwood: This episode has been basically the sanest Dave Emory segment in years and years. (Emory would've had more Nazis or Islamofascists.)
	6:52pm Franco Twinkie: This morning I woke up smeared with Tiger Balm. I have no explanation for this.
	🤖 6:52pm Bas NL: You feel... sleeeepy...
	6:52pm dale: adolph coors (possibly) committed suicide. i like to think it's because he knew his beer was pi$$.
	6:52pm StringOFperils: I keep suspecting I'm having my leg pulled and that Wing will kick in any second now.
	6:52pm Carmichael: Ken's InfoWars.
	6:52pm queems: cool i want to watch playbacks of my night terrors
	6:52pm Marie: OMG.....
	🤖 6:52pm tim from washington: Oh no! Amazon will catch me sneaking to the fridge for a midnight snack.
	6:52pm Feldy: Coors wants to augment our bodies so that our skin changes colors when we're cold
	🤖 6:52pm Webhamster Henry: I was just going to comment about Dave Emory so THE SURVEILLANCE STATE IS ACTIVE NOW!
	6:53pm Sonderangebot: I learned so much with Mark shows, but I have to admit that the more emotionally he gets, the less I can take it seriously.
	6:53pm annie: my dreams are far more interesting than anyone can imagine.. i like the growth-episodes i have..
	6:53pm listener james from westwood: Amazon-as-Clippy: "It looks like you're trying to have sex from someone different from your usual partner. Would you like some help?"
	6:53pm mrdonutsu: According to a bunch of right-wing sites, it was BIDEN HIMSELF who authorized the Amazon Sleep Radar.
	🤖 6:53pm tim from washington: "Alexa - what is Station Manager Ken doing in his bed right now?"
	🤖 6:54pm Will the Sound Guy: I really hate Amazon
	6:54pm sydnius: 🤖 🍆
	6:54pm tak: now I'm imagining Mark as a robot, turned by the enemy to poison our minds free of all tone and emotion
	🤖 6:54pm Webhamster Henry: Mark's hyperventilating demonstrates why conservative talk radio works so well.
	6:54pm (Murakami Whywolf))): This T.D.I. claim seemed reminiscent of me of subliminal advertising, that is to say self-proclaimed experts shewing that ad executives can be just as credulous as anyone else.
	6:54pm StringOFperils: When will there be Sleep Force? That's what I want to know. When will I see Sleep Force cadets sitting on the edge of my mind?
	6:54pm Marie: Now we're all going to have to buy some kind of "radar" blocker...-made by Amazon??
	6:55pm mrdonutsu: So don't blame Bezos, blame the libs.
	6:55pm listener 126464: Sleep Force!
	6:55pm ed: Do I need to sleep with a tin foil hat?
	🤖 6:55pm Webhamster Henry: And soon, well, be going to the ARBitrarium which will definitely creep into your dreams.
	6:55pm tak: blame 'em all
	🤖 6:55pm Handy Haversack: Thanks for stepping up, Ken! Nice chatting earlier! Thanks for letting me talk through my lack of social eptness on air!
	6:55pm annie: logging off to move towards sleep now
	6:55pm Carmichael: I still have a pyramid under my bed.
	6:55pm solo mon: I have a lot of “work” dreams where I’m stapling shit together in an office.
	6:56pm listener 126464: Dreamin' Wild!
	🤖 6:56pm Webhamster Henry: Dion McGregor was available in the WFMU Catalog.
	6:56pm listener james from westwood: @ed: Might need some sort of space blanket or Jiffy-Pop package.
	🤖 6:56pm chresti: On the edge of your bed, StringO!
	6:56pm Old Dave: Marie- tin foil will be fine
	🤖 6:56pm Will the Sound Guy: blanketed in TP
	6:56pm dale: we're a proud scott toilet tissue family here....value, comfort yada yada....
	6:57pm Marie: @Old Dave--sounds good to me.. maybe add a little Saran Wrap to be sure?
	6:57pm queems: speaking of creepy shit, a website i have never been to just sent an email to my email address without me giving it to them
	6:57pm ed: Eek! I get a lot of subway dreams although I haven't lived in NYC in 15 years. Is amazon trying to force me to move back?
	6:57pm Franco Twinkie: I love Mark, but Ken as a certain je nes se quoi. Can we do a one on one off to parse this horror that is been imposed on us? Humor is a good balm for rising panic.
	6:57pm coelacanth∅: Thanks Ken
	🤖 6:57pm Will the Sound Guy: Thank you Staysh!!! great Fill-in for Mark!
	🤖 6:57pm DjLorraine: I have a mic block plug in but then i cant get phone calls
	🤖 6:57pm tim from washington: Thanks, Ken!
	6:57pm listener james from westwood: Thanks, Ken!
	6:57pm solo mon: Bidets won’t listen to you like TP will.
	6:57pm listener 126464: Thanks Ken.
	6:57pm Carmichael: Thank you Kenneth.
	🤖 6:58pm Bas NL: Thanks Ken! Great fill-in!
	🤖 6:58pm Handy Haversack: queems, was it wfmu.orb?
	6:58pm ed: Excellent show!
	6:58pm Marie: Danke, Herr Ken
	6:58pm chris in the redwoods: thanks, Ken! pleasant coors-y dreams.
	6:58pm Roland from Australia: Thumbs up for station manager Ken thanks
	6:58pm Old Dave: Great show
	6:58pm Franco Twinkie: Thanks Ken. Next time, yell more.
	🤖 6:58pm Ken From Hyde Park: Thanks! Pleasant dreams!
	6:58pm tak: I heard everything you just said for the past hour!
	🤖 6:59pm Webhamster Henry: If you have some busted headphones, cut the plug off and stick it in the socket (if you still have one) and the mic will be disabled.
	6:59pm solo mon: Not enough Network speeches for my taste, ;-)
	🤖 6:59pm Handy Haversack: (Also, not to brag, but K8 made a great bean chili last weekend, and we were going to have it on rice tonight, and then I suddenly could see the Matrix and said: "What if we had it on Tater Tots?" It is so on that it very much resembles Donkey Kong.)
	🤖 7:00pm Ken From Hyde Park: Next week: What is Amazon doing listening in on dogs' dreams?

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from November 29, 2021

View Mark Hurst's profile

Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

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Upcoming events:

Mon. Dec 23rd, 6pm - 7pm: Don Fleming guest hosts Techtonic
Mon. Dec 30th, 6pm - 7pm: Andrew Smith, author, "Devil in the Stack" (More info...)
Writer Andrew Smith decided to learn computer programming in his 50s. What happened next is captured in his book "Devil in the Stack: A Code Odyssey," and wide-ranging tour through computer history, neuroscience, and the friendliest programming language.

November 29, 2021: Station Manager Ken Guest Hosts Techtonic Tonight

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Listener comments!
	🤖 6:01pm tim from washington: Hey Staysh! Lay it on us!
	🤖 6:02pm Handy Haversack: Techgin is poured! (Well, tonight the role of Techgin will be played by Techrye, just like the role of Mark Hurst will be played by ...) Hi, Ken! Gamebuoyant! Hey out there, Techyon Drives!
	🤖 6:02pm Will the Sound Guy: Good evening, Staysh and all!!
	🤖 6:02pm Bas NL: Hi Mark! Hi digitally challenged people!
	🤖 6:03pm Bas NL: Strike that.. Hi Ken!!
	6:03pm dale: i can't get my 20 dollar gopro knockoff to talk to my computer to see the files. should i call in?
	🤖 6:03pm Webhamster Henry: Hi Techtonic Friends!
	🤖 6:03pm chresti: Hello Ken and techtones!
	🤖 6:03pm Webhamster Henry: My $20 GoPro Knockoff works fine with my computer!
	🤖 6:04pm tim from washington: Oh no! I hope Ken didn't try his brain transplant with Mark again.
	🤖 6:04pm Handy Haversack: tim, Will, Bas, Henry, cresti, Dale and all incoming Techniks, hope the Tech has not yet invaded your brainstems!
	🤖 6:04pm Webhamster Henry: How may heads does Ken have tonight?
	🤖 6:05pm Webhamster Henry: With Mark gone, we can all safely talk about our Facebook friends!
	6:05pm listener james from westwood: Evening, Ken and all!
	6:05pm Claire from Montclair: Greetings!
	6:05pm solo mon: Hi!
	6:05pm dale: henry - is there a program other than GoPlus Cam i can try?
	🤖 6:06pm tim from washington: I spy on my devices.
	🤖 6:06pm Webhamster Henry: I'm on a Mac, things "Just work" - it just shows up as a camera.
	6:06pm Sonderangebot: When I say 'chicken', I get rotisserie chicken ads. I tried dildo, though, and nothing happened. So biased!
	6:07pm tak: my smartphone microphone is busted!! and I never fixed it! 2 years I've been using external microphones I can turn off mechanically
	🤖 6:07pm Handy Haversack: Live from the Kremlin! At our baseline, we are boringly un-spied-on at home. No smartphones, no Facebook, no nothing. I am in deep internal debate as the world starts up a little bit about how to ask friends and guests to turn off their smartphones when they enter our apartment.
	6:07pm dale: oh man. my computer heard the radio and now i'm flooded with bestine coupons!
	🤖 6:08pm Webhamster Henry: I like that video where Alexa and Siri are talking to each other.
	6:08pm Marie: Wha???
	6:08pm Franco Twinkie: This was at Target in Pasadena about thirty minutes ago.
	🤖 6:08pm Will the Sound Guy: TDI targeted dream incubation... not turbo diesel injection... got it
	🤖 6:09pm Handy Haversack: Will, they can be combined.
	6:09pm dale: henry - thanks....we have a newish ipad and maybe i can get it to see that.
	6:10pm solo mon: I like the rants!
	6:10pm chris in the redwoods: it is great radio. i agree with Ken on this. also, hello, sane techies.
	6:11pm Carmichael: Let the man rant! Give him his rant!
	6:11pm Franco Twinkie: Oh for craps sake! Who likes measured? Not me!
	6:11pm MarciB: Love when Mark gets passionate - it's important !
	🤖 6:11pm Bas NL: Is Mark to be assimilated? Hope not!
	6:11pm solo mon: Measured is for baking.
	🤖 6:12pm Bas NL: Handy!!
	🤖 6:12pm tim from washington: I'm too dumb for any smart device to pick up on anything I've said.
	🤖 6:12pm Webhamster Henry: As you might know, my ex did a lot of dream talk - somniloquies, for which we actually set up a somniloquy room which had a dedicated mic channel. It'd them be edited into poems. A lot of this audio was part of the amazing Boredcast by People Like Us. Here's an example: www.wfmu.org...
	6:12pm Jackie G: Good. More Mark rants. That's the best part of the show. And Mark is right, but not enough people are listening.
	🤖 6:12pm tim from washington: Handy! Handy! Handy!
	🤖 6:12pm Will the Sound Guy: Handy!!!!
	6:13pm Franco Twinkie: If I wanted measured, I'd be listening to All Things Considered right now.
	🤖 6:13pm Webhamster Henry: Check your phone at the door, with your open carry weaponry.
	6:14pm chris in the redwoods: Handy, build a small faraday cage, put a fake recharger symbol on it, and tell people - free recharges! just drop it in the box.
	6:14pm Marie: Really good and scary article about how AI maybe able to "take over" relatively soon: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/29/yeah-were-spooked-ai-starting-to-have-big-real-world-impact-says-expert
	6:14pm Franco Twinkie: When we have people over, everyone has to put their phones in the dishwasher.
	6:14pm Sonderangebot: Phubbing shouldn't be socially acceptable!
	6:14pm Carmichael: When I walk into anyone's house, I say, "Alexa, order 20 lbs. of cottage cheese."
	6:15pm Ñ€Ð°Ð±Ð¾ÑÐ½Ð: smash their phones with a hammer.
	🤖 6:15pm Handy Haversack: Franco, that's why you're the best! I don't have a dishwasher, though ...
	6:16pm Franco Twinkie: No dessert until phones are dismantled in front of me on the kitchen table.
	6:16pm tak: I think it's reached a point where it doesn't matter if it can hear you or not. Their predictive models are already p. advanced, at least in regards to selling you stuff and services.
	6:16pm Sonderangebot: Just tell people to leave their phone on a table somewhere. See Catherine Price, I think she was a guest on Techtonic - author of How to Break Up With Your Phone.
	6:16pm Franco Twinkie: No Handy, YOU'RE the best!
	🤖 6:16pm Bas NL: I've left parties unseen while everybody was on their phone. "Why weren't you at my party?" Heh.
	6:16pm dale: jfk.hood.edu...
	6:17pm Marie: I would say something like, "hey guys, could you all do me a favor and not use your phones tonight while we are hanging out?"
	🤖 6:18pm Handy Haversack: But there's active use, and then there's the phones on passive spy mode. Without a dishwasher, how do you get everyone to deafen their phones?
	🤖 6:18pm Will the Sound Guy: definitely with ads they listen
	6:19pm dale: my hands have soaked up so much acetone from my years of doing paste up i'm sure alzheimer's is in my future.
	🤖 6:19pm Webhamster Henry: I was going to reiterate what tak said. Remember that they don't care about you, even though they are tracking your behavior and location as much as they can. Now they correlate the buying habits of whatever phone-holding persons you are near often enough in order to sell you stuff that they just bought.
	6:19pm Graham C: Hi Ken. I read an article somewhere in the last few months arguing that the AI is advanced enough now that it’s not necessary to spy directly on individuals for the purposes of targeted advertising. It’s simply a matter of triangulation—-social media and device usage are so thoroughly enmeshed in the lives of millions, and the AI can simply connect a lot of dots.
	6:19pm Marie: If you have a microwave, ask them to put it in there ? ? @) what kind of spy where are we talking about on the phones?
	6:20pm Franco Twinkie: Marie, been nice is very difficult for me. But strangely, people still want to hang out. Go figure.
	🤖 6:20pm DjLorraine: I tried to help an elderly friend at his home and after awhile he shouts “Alexa,. ..“ I felt betrayed that i wasn't told.
	6:20pm queems: what is the topic? i missed it
	🤖 6:20pm Handy Haversack: K8 got a Light Phone (www.wfmu.org...) instead of her old flip phone, but we haven't set it up yet. Because we both are kind of like, "What's a SIM card again? How do those work?" Not too hep over here, I'm afraid. Oof, DjLorraine. queems, your devices listening in and spying on you.
	6:21pm queems: @handy ah yes, that
	6:21pm Marie: @ Franco--I find it hard to believe that you hard time being nice... your buddies prolly appreciate you and know not to take that personally///
	6:21pm tak: yeah sim cards do amazing things on their own! but it's mostly just tracking for operators/agencies
	6:21pm Marie: BTW, I go through all my apps and limit their permissions as much as possible
	6:22pm queems: it upsets me but i refuse to do anything about it other than turn off siri voice activation
	6:23pm Marie: I would never have Siri or Alexa..., gotta say...
	🤖 6:23pm Webhamster Henry: For example, it doesn't matter that you don't look up "goop" if friends or neighbors (as defined by location) do. If that product is paying for product placement, it'll prioritize ads sent to you.
	6:24pm queems: my bf’s grandmother lives with him and whenever she goes away he unplugs her alexa. he hates that she has it but can’t tell her no
	6:24pm tak: yeah maybe goop is a big thing in your affluent neighbourhood
	6:24pm Franco Twinkie: Well Marie, just the other day I had someone get up from the table and stomp off in a huff because, well, I'm not sure.
	🤖 6:25pm Webhamster Henry: Now we're all going to get drug ads put in our feeds.
	🤖 6:25pm Will the Sound Guy: def suspicious, maybe a coincidence...
	🤖 6:25pm Handy Haversack: Or drug-house ads, W Henry.
	🤖 6:26pm Handy Haversack: If one didn't live in a tech universe that was controlled by advertising, one wouldn't have to wonder.
	6:26pm chris in the redwoods: "many of your friends prefer Frankie's weed, and he's right around the corner." thanks, Siri!
	6:26pm Roland from Australia: Always a good listen.
	6:26pm Marie: @Franco--I dunno...I guess you could ask
	6:27pm Marie: I am actually a bot
	6:27pm Franco Twinkie: I could - but I won't.
	🤖 6:27pm Webhamster Henry: The social network mining is pretty creepy! I once got a "suggested friend" for someone I did about 3 weeks of work with in 1995.
	🤖 6:27pm chresti: Maybe the Russians are listening in?
	🤖 6:27pm Handy Haversack: We don't judge, Marie.
	6:28pm Marie: @Handy--hee hee hee @).
	6:28pm coelacanth∅: you can "turn off microphone", but the microphone doesn't turn off. (that's fact)
	🤖 6:29pm Will the Sound Guy: apple uses the bonjour service
	6:30pm Jackie G: Quills was a good movie.
	🤖 6:30pm Will the Sound Guy: all apple devices will try to discover each device in the area
	6:30pm Roland from Australia: We need to be like Mark and use a basic flip phone.
	6:30pm chris in the redwoods: i can't find it now, so my memory could be faulty... but... a security researcher back in the early '00s found a way to send malicious code to an air-gapped (not connected to network) machine via the speaker. that shit gives me the willies.
	6:30pm dale: does alexa's mic actually turn off? she won't respond when she's lit up red but maybe she's still hearing.
	🤖 6:31pm Ken From Hyde Park: Step 1: Be smarter than your smart phone.
	6:31pm Graham C: Germane to caller Toni’s points: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/11/26/ios-privacy-settings/
	6:31pm annie: yeah, dale, i wonder if it's recording
	6:31pm Marie: It might be interesting to see what Goop is trying to sell you... grooming or mystical supplies or super-expensive objects...
	🤖 6:32pm chresti: I curse at my devices often.
	6:32pm Kenner: The paranoid old crapper hour .
	🤖 6:32pm Webhamster Henry: There are lots of interesting air gap defeat strategies.
	6:32pm Marie: @Kenner--lol
	🤖 6:33pm Bas NL: With the latest Android release it's now possible to disable remote activation of location information. Google used to be able to activate location information without your knowledge.
	6:33pm coelacanth∅: it (not "she") has a microphone, therefore shouldn't be trusted to not be recording audio. bottom line. you need to dunk it under 2-3 feet of water.
	6:33pm Gurldoggie: She's got a TDI on you, she's got a TDI.
	6:33pm Marie: I'm actually horrified by this, seriously
	6:33pm chris in the redwoods: here's an example <shivers> www.securecircle.com...
	6:33pm dale: annie in the house!
	🤖 6:33pm Handy Haversack: chris: Like the Digibomb in Cryptonomicon!
	6:34pm queems: i just started watching the sopranos an i think it would be way more interesting to watch if they all had alexas in the year 2021
	6:34pm Franco Twinkie: I use a basic flip phone. I know it makes me look like a goon, but so what?
	6:34pm tak: that's a nice project though. they would have to be so artistic, so inspired and creative and talented in order to make it happen. Intrusive marketing will be mesmerizingly beautiful!!!
	6:34pm dale: but coor's is just so lousy as far as beer goes.
	6:34pm annie: my only phone is a flipper, no smart phone for me; DALE!!!
	6:34pm dale: genny cream is betterer.
	🤖 6:34pm Handy Haversack: Franco, I have a rotary. I mean, I keep a touchtone on hand for calling the bank. I'm not a barbarian.
	6:35pm tak: I'm sure someone has dreamed [because]of that orange tango ad
	6:35pm (Murakami Whywolf))): Correlation isn't causality: if I've mentioned something in conversation, there's a very good chance that I've seen something about it already on one computer or another. I've only once experienced what seemed like having been listened-to, and I think it were actually due to the above. As far as I know, no devices usually listen to us. We've no 'smart speaker', we've supposedly turned the microphone off on our streaming device's remote (though I ought to open it and cut its cable).
	6:35pm dale: i have a collection of western electric rotaries but just dropped the landline.
	6:35pm Franco Twinkie: Us too Handy.
	6:35pm Marie: Oh dear lord, where does selling shit stop? BTW, I find it hard to believe that they could pinpoint content with much specificity. Also, I keep thinking I might need to leave America
	🤖 6:35pm Handy Haversack: queems, at some point (season 2?), they are doing something online and Tony says something like, "I don't want nuttin to do with them cookies!"
	6:37pm queems: @handy that tony soprano was a visionary
	🤖 6:37pm Webhamster Henry: When I talk to electronic devices, I usually ask "Why does the Porridge Bird Lay its egg in the air?"
	6:37pm Marie: I try to use DuckDuck Go and Ixquick
	🤖 6:38pm Webhamster Henry: www.digitalcitizen.life...
	6:38pm Franco Twinkie: Neil Young was right to bail from that basket of snakes.
	6:39pm Listener Robert: Coulda been worse, -Ken: They could've been selling you a Nash.
	6:39pm queems: i love the smell of rotten eggs and hate the smell of cigarette smoke so
	6:40pm annie: i had read about that study just a couple days ago, i think on the verge website
	6:40pm Marie: Boy, that was like a copy of sleeping with a gassy smoker, eh?
	6:40pm dale: is targeted sleep incubation like strangubation?
	🤖 6:40pm Webhamster Henry: @Ken that phenomenon came up with the email rules engine I wrote in the early 00s. For instance, if it picks up "Gun Control", it has a hard time telling whether the message is pro or con.
	6:41pm (((Murakami Whywolf): A man has been conscripted into the Soviet Army; his mother writes to him telling him that she's glad she's doing his Patriotic Duty but she misses him now that it's time to dig-up the potatoes. Her son writes back 'Maybe you can look for the treasure that the old boyar supposedly buried in the fields near our house.' She writes back "Son, the darnedest thing happened: it was easy to get the potatoes because the day I received your last letter a bunch of KGB men showed-up and dug-up all fields!'.
	6:41pm Franco Twinkie: Is their one person on this miserable planet who likes the smell of dirty ashtrays and egg farts?
	6:42pm listener james from westwood: @Franco: He left office earlier this year.
	6:43pm tak: !! music for mind control
	🤖 6:43pm Handy Haversack: The Coors plan is almost complicated enough to be a D&D tactic for my group.
	6:43pm Franco Twinkie: I would drink water from the toilet before I had a Coors.
	6:43pm annie: i hate coors!!..now if they suggested i purchase a 6-pack of ommegang beer. sure, if they spring for it, too!!!
	6:43pm StringOFperils: If you think Coor's is good, you are indeed dreaming.
	6:44pm Carmichael: My wife's family drinks Coors light by the trainload.
	6:44pm StringOFperils: Freud wrote about hypnagogic states in The Interpretation of Dreams
	🤖 6:44pm Handy Haversack: iiibeat!
	6:45pm dale: i went to ommegang! cooperstown baby!
	🤖 6:45pm chresti: Next they'll use gentle electric shock when you reach for a different brand of beer.
	🤖 6:45pm Webhamster Henry: Here's a funny WFMU-TV political ad with subliminal messages. www.youtube.com...
	🤖 6:45pm Handy Haversack: I certainly drank Ommegang in Cooperstown.
	6:45pm ARB: Waiting for Mark's wife to call in and refute Ken's baloney claims
	6:46pm Marie: My washington post page is showing me stuffed animals of endangered species sold by the World Wildlife Federation--what does that say about me?
	🤖 6:46pm Handy Haversack: Right, ARB? It reeked of a false-flag operation!
	6:47pm annie: yeah, handy, it's a good brand..i like three philosophers ..mostly
	🤖 6:47pm PaulRobeson1920: Hi ya’ll! Wowza
	6:47pm Old Dave: JG Ballard
	🤖 6:47pm tim from washington: So Coors isn't evil and authoritarian?
	6:48pm Marie: Infinite Jest...
	6:48pm Feldy: Social media knows where you are, physically, so you'll get served ads that are targeted to people you were near and may have known, regardless of what you talked about
	6:48pm annie: this is very Manchurian candiddate-ian
	🤖 6:49pm chresti: They're making them dumber with sleep deprivation?
	6:49pm StringOFperils: Coors is smooth and probiotic and full of miniature monitoring devices that attach to the inside of your body.
	6:49pm Franco Twinkie: If you run out of voodoo floor wash, use a can of Coors.
	🤖 6:50pm Webhamster Henry: Isn't the whole point of brand advertising to get into your unconscious?
	6:50pm Marie: I think Coors is an abomination of beer...
	6:50pm solo mon: People wide awake are prob more easily swayed than in sleep state.
	🤖 6:50pm chresti: They got a TV I on you!
	6:51pm JR: Mark's style of reporting on tech topics is of course interesting, but I like Ken's style better.
	🤖 6:51pm Will the Sound Guy: right...
	6:51pm solo mon: If you dream about Coors… may all your dreams come true!
	6:51pm Sonderangebot: indeed WH, see Bernays and Freud links
	6:51pm Old Dave: My snoring will disrupt any radar they develop. Bring it!
	6:51pm listener james from westwood: This episode has been basically the sanest Dave Emory segment in years and years. (Emory would've had more Nazis or Islamofascists.)
	6:52pm Franco Twinkie: This morning I woke up smeared with Tiger Balm. I have no explanation for this.
	🤖 6:52pm Bas NL: You feel... sleeeepy...
	6:52pm dale: adolph coors (possibly) committed suicide. i like to think it's because he knew his beer was pi$$.
	6:52pm StringOFperils: I keep suspecting I'm having my leg pulled and that Wing will kick in any second now.
	6:52pm Carmichael: Ken's InfoWars.
	6:52pm queems: cool i want to watch playbacks of my night terrors
	6:52pm Marie: OMG.....
	🤖 6:52pm tim from washington: Oh no! Amazon will catch me sneaking to the fridge for a midnight snack.
	6:52pm Feldy: Coors wants to augment our bodies so that our skin changes colors when we're cold
	🤖 6:52pm Webhamster Henry: I was just going to comment about Dave Emory so THE SURVEILLANCE STATE IS ACTIVE NOW!
	6:53pm Sonderangebot: I learned so much with Mark shows, but I have to admit that the more emotionally he gets, the less I can take it seriously.
	6:53pm annie: my dreams are far more interesting than anyone can imagine.. i like the growth-episodes i have..
	6:53pm listener james from westwood: Amazon-as-Clippy: "It looks like you're trying to have sex from someone different from your usual partner. Would you like some help?"
	6:53pm mrdonutsu: According to a bunch of right-wing sites, it was BIDEN HIMSELF who authorized the Amazon Sleep Radar.
	🤖 6:53pm tim from washington: "Alexa - what is Station Manager Ken doing in his bed right now?"
	🤖 6:54pm Will the Sound Guy: I really hate Amazon
	6:54pm sydnius: 🤖 🍆
	6:54pm tak: now I'm imagining Mark as a robot, turned by the enemy to poison our minds free of all tone and emotion
	🤖 6:54pm Webhamster Henry: Mark's hyperventilating demonstrates why conservative talk radio works so well.
	6:54pm (Murakami Whywolf))): This T.D.I. claim seemed reminiscent of me of subliminal advertising, that is to say self-proclaimed experts shewing that ad executives can be just as credulous as anyone else.
	6:54pm StringOFperils: When will there be Sleep Force? That's what I want to know. When will I see Sleep Force cadets sitting on the edge of my mind?
	6:54pm Marie: Now we're all going to have to buy some kind of "radar" blocker...-made by Amazon??
	6:55pm mrdonutsu: So don't blame Bezos, blame the libs.
	6:55pm listener 126464: Sleep Force!
	6:55pm ed: Do I need to sleep with a tin foil hat?
	🤖 6:55pm Webhamster Henry: And soon, well, be going to the ARBitrarium which will definitely creep into your dreams.
	6:55pm tak: blame 'em all
	🤖 6:55pm Handy Haversack: Thanks for stepping up, Ken! Nice chatting earlier! Thanks for letting me talk through my lack of social eptness on air!
	6:55pm annie: logging off to move towards sleep now
	6:55pm Carmichael: I still have a pyramid under my bed.
	6:55pm solo mon: I have a lot of “work” dreams where I’m stapling shit together in an office.
	6:56pm listener 126464: Dreamin' Wild!
	🤖 6:56pm Webhamster Henry: Dion McGregor was available in the WFMU Catalog.
	6:56pm listener james from westwood: @ed: Might need some sort of space blanket or Jiffy-Pop package.
	🤖 6:56pm chresti: On the edge of your bed, StringO!
	6:56pm Old Dave: Marie- tin foil will be fine
	🤖 6:56pm Will the Sound Guy: blanketed in TP
	6:56pm dale: we're a proud scott toilet tissue family here....value, comfort yada yada....
	6:57pm Marie: @Old Dave--sounds good to me.. maybe add a little Saran Wrap to be sure?
	6:57pm queems: speaking of creepy shit, a website i have never been to just sent an email to my email address without me giving it to them
	6:57pm ed: Eek! I get a lot of subway dreams although I haven't lived in NYC in 15 years. Is amazon trying to force me to move back?
	6:57pm Franco Twinkie: I love Mark, but Ken as a certain je nes se quoi. Can we do a one on one off to parse this horror that is been imposed on us? Humor is a good balm for rising panic.
	6:57pm coelacanth∅: Thanks Ken
	🤖 6:57pm Will the Sound Guy: Thank you Staysh!!! great Fill-in for Mark!
	🤖 6:57pm DjLorraine: I have a mic block plug in but then i cant get phone calls
	🤖 6:57pm tim from washington: Thanks, Ken!
	6:57pm listener james from westwood: Thanks, Ken!
	6:57pm solo mon: Bidets won’t listen to you like TP will.
	6:57pm listener 126464: Thanks Ken.
	6:57pm Carmichael: Thank you Kenneth.
	🤖 6:58pm Bas NL: Thanks Ken! Great fill-in!
	🤖 6:58pm Handy Haversack: queems, was it wfmu.orb?
	6:58pm ed: Excellent show!
	6:58pm Marie: Danke, Herr Ken
	6:58pm chris in the redwoods: thanks, Ken! pleasant coors-y dreams.
	6:58pm Roland from Australia: Thumbs up for station manager Ken thanks
	6:58pm Old Dave: Great show
	6:58pm Franco Twinkie: Thanks Ken. Next time, yell more.
	🤖 6:58pm Ken From Hyde Park: Thanks! Pleasant dreams!
	6:58pm tak: I heard everything you just said for the past hour!
	🤖 6:59pm Webhamster Henry: If you have some busted headphones, cut the plug off and stick it in the socket (if you still have one) and the mic will be disabled.
	6:59pm solo mon: Not enough Network speeches for my taste, ;-)
	🤖 6:59pm Handy Haversack: (Also, not to brag, but K8 made a great bean chili last weekend, and we were going to have it on rice tonight, and then I suddenly could see the Matrix and said: "What if we had it on Tater Tots?" It is so on that it very much resembles Donkey Kong.)
	🤖 7:00pm Ken From Hyde Park: Next week: What is Amazon doing listening in on dogs' dreams?

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from November 29, 2021

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